Retro Wrestling w/ Gene Jackson Episode #33: Guest: Bubba White aka the Mighty Goliath!

[00:00:09] Speaker A: Body slam take me to the limit if you can don't wanna boil nothing for a man, understand Job he gotta do. Body fan, I think you can fit in my fan. You show my love with quick attention you. [00:00:41] Speaker B: Hey everybody, welcome back once again to Retro Wrestling with Gene Jackson. And I have got a special interview this week. A few weeks back I spoke with Bubba White over on the Retro Wrestling Review USWA podcast and we talked at length about his time as Moondog Splat. But today he returns and now we're going to talk all about the time he spent as the Mighty Goliath. So welcome to the show now, the mighty Goliath himself, Mr. Bubba White. [00:01:11] Speaker A: Hey, what's going on? Not much, man. [00:01:14] Speaker B: Good to see you again. [00:01:16] Speaker A: Good to see you again. [00:01:18] Speaker B: Oh, man, yeah, well, that's, that's getting ready to happen, as a matter of fact, as you are going to be appearing at the Kayfabe Cave, 110 S. First St. In Pulaski, Tennessee on Saturday, August 23, which as we speak right now is just about a week and a half away. You'll be there from noon to 3pm and people can go on right now to the Kayfabe Cave website. You can pre order your meet and greets, your autograph photos, posters. I think they've even got one that Downtown Bruno has already signed that you'll be able to sign there at the event. So they'll have both of you on there. So, man, it's been. First time in 30 years. How excited are you for this? [00:02:02] Speaker A: Oh, but I'm still getting more, more, I guess, worried about what I'm going to say, what I'm going to do when I'm trying to think what's going to be said, you know what I mean? [00:02:15] Speaker B: I got you. Yeah, man, I'm. I'm planning on making, I'm excited though. Alabama. [00:02:21] Speaker A: What's up? [00:02:22] Speaker B: So I plan on making the trip up there from Alabama and I look forward to meeting you and I know a lot of other people are looking forward to it as well. [00:02:29] Speaker A: Good, good. I'll be happy, I'll be glad to see you when I get down there. [00:02:35] Speaker B: Well, yeah, we talked, we went really in depth about your time as Moondog Splat last time. And I told you there was so much to talk about, we'd split it into two. So this time we're going to talk about how Goliath came to be. But I guess we'll start at the very beginning. Were you a wrestling fan growing up? What led to you moving towards the wrestling business? [00:02:57] Speaker A: I Was a wrestling fan then I wrestled in high school, but as I was younger, Bruno Sammartino, the Batman was on tv and. And in fact, my dad went to watch it and he was on the program, and we waited up to see him go past. The guy was doing interviews at the end, and my dad walked by and, you know, but as you know, we always, Me and my brother, always. My younger brother, always jumping off the couches, the bunk beds, and jumping on each other, you know, putting a pile of clothes down, throwing the mattresses on top of the clothes just so we, you know, we didn't get hurt. Right. It really got my mom mad. But then I had to go to work after high school, helped my dad out, and then after a few years, I said, nah, I got to do something better than this. So I was always training, but I wasn't training at Heart at that time. But I started picking up the pace and met a guy that got me in with Guido Mongol. [00:03:57] Speaker B: Okay. That was what I was going to ask, because, you know, this is the mid-80s, so it wasn't like there was wrestling schools on every corner like there are now. So I was going to say, what. [00:04:05] Speaker A: What. [00:04:06] Speaker B: How did you find your way in? But there's our answer right there. [00:04:09] Speaker A: Yeah, I was going to the gym and a guy heard me, you know, heard about me wanting to get in the ring, and I was trying. I was supposed to meet John Sullivan anyway. Yeah, he was Johnny Valiant. He was it with the Valiants and all that. Yeah. And I was supposed to meet him at the arena, but I never got a chance to meet him. So I went back to the gym. This guy goes, I heard you're trying to get in. And he wrestled as a dual personality, whatever, as twins. And he goes here, called Newton Tatry. And I go, newton Tantry? I thought you said Guido. I know the bongles. But I go, you know who's needed? Newton, you know, and so I called him and he kind of, kay. Faded me a little bit on what. What his name was and. And what he does. Then I told him who I met and. And then we started. He goes, okay, come on up. You know, here's my price. At that time, Dominic Denucci had a studio going, too. [00:05:15] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:05:16] Speaker A: And the Monster Factory that I heard of, that was the only two I knew of that. That did classes or, you know, trained you, you know. [00:05:24] Speaker B: Yeah, that would be. That would be it at that time. So how did. How did they start? I mean, I know, like, I got. I got in the business in like, 97 and did some stuff in the, you know, like, Southern Indies and stuff like that, and they didn't immediately smarten you up. Like, I know guys that had their first match before they really got smartened up at all, like, how did the training go? Did they kind of tell you what it was all about right out of the gate? Or it kind of easy into it. [00:05:52] Speaker A: Or I think more eased me into it because I learned some, you know, moves and different stuff, but no one really, the, the philosophy, I guess, you know, the psychology is everybody keeps bringing up when I got in there. And yeah, my first match, I was totally, what, okay, I'm gonna, you know, try to re. Vent here, you know, and Jerry the King Lawler come up to me and Fred Ottman, Typhoon, and he pulled us both off to the side and we'll say, hey, you know, he starts giving us all the cut, you know, sabadas and all the different stuff that they, you know, talk about. And he said, look, man, you. You got, you know, you can beat him, but we can't have that. We got to have him, you know, make it look good. So, you know, other than that, I learned a lot after that. I. Because really, Guido never got in the ring with me and the other guys. It wasn't that many guys at the training facility. There's only maybe a handful, maybe six, seven at a time that would ever be there. And a few managers like Bruno would come by, and then another guy that did some refereeing, Brian, He. He was in the wcw. Brian Hildebrand. [00:07:06] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. Mark Curtis. [00:07:07] Speaker A: Yeah, Mark Curtis. Yeah. And he wanted, he, he was always up there doing some little things on the side of the match. And then that's when Bruno come to me and says, hey, you know, they wanna, they, they want you down and me and you down in Tennessee with the, the cwa, which I never heard of the cwa. So let's get ready, you know. [00:07:31] Speaker B: Yeah, that's something I was going to ask you is, you know, Memphis has a huge reputation with Southern wrestlers and Southern fans, but I wondered if, if in the Northeast, if anybody really had any perception of Memphis at all. [00:07:46] Speaker A: All I know is, you know, you got to go through Memphis to get to the wwf is what I heard, you know, at the gym, whatever they said, you know, you got to go down there, get, get your, you know, get your act together, get your, you know, whatever ring presence going, and then go from there, you know. [00:08:05] Speaker B: Oh, I mean, it's hard to name anybody that made it big, that didn't go through there. At some point, really, just about everybody did. [00:08:11] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:08:12] Speaker B: Especially in that era. [00:08:14] Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, I, I see some stuff on, you know, on the tick tock here and stuff like that. I'm like, wow. He went. He was down there. Yeah. I never knew, you know, but yeah, hey, I, I had my tryouts with the wwf. It just didn't work out, you know. [00:08:31] Speaker B: Now you did have a tryout, like, to be one of the hillbillies, like Hillbilly Jim and Uncle Elmer. Was that before you went to Memphis or was that after? [00:08:40] Speaker A: That was before. That was like almost a, Almost a good year before, because that was like in November of 80, 84, 85. And then I went, that's when Bruno. The next September, October, when I come down there. That's almost a year. So. And I still didn't get as much good training from when I went up to the WWF to be a hillbilly and when I went down to Memphis, you know. [00:09:08] Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, who better than Lawler? Because, I mean, Lawler can work with anybody. And gosh, I mean, if, if there's anyone who understands the psychology of wrestling and, and can pass it on, he's definitely the guy. So. [00:09:23] Speaker A: I have a lot of respect for Jerry, you know, I, he taught me a lot, you know, talking to me in the back, you know, in the locker rooms and stuff like that and at the TV station before, you know, went out to do the live tv, and I thought I was catching on. I thought I caught on pretty well. So, you know, and then I broke my leg. [00:09:42] Speaker B: So, yeah. What was easier for you to pick up? The physical aspect or the psychological aspect once you started catching on to that and learning that side of it, I'd. [00:09:56] Speaker A: Say that the physical part was easier for me. You know, picking up guys, me getting picked up, I just had more thought. I remember having a match with a new guy to come in, and I'm trying to think of the guy's name. Anyway, he goes, hey, go out there, have a match. And I couldn't even talk to the guy, so I'm like, I called it, you know, I said, okay, I'm gonna call this whole thing because he's, he's newer than me. And so we, I, I put the whole match together in the ring and I got out and he came back up to me, goes, man, what? You got to start doing this all the time, you know? So he goes, that was good. Good match. So. And that way he was in, in the business, too. I'm trying to think of Jerry Jarrett's Father in law, Eddie Marlin. Eddie Marlin? Yeah, man. Too many hits to the head again. I'm sort of, you know, brain dysfunctioning. [00:11:00] Speaker B: So. [00:11:00] Speaker A: But Eddie Marlin, he, he was, he was also a good guy, too. I always had respect for Eddie, you know. [00:11:06] Speaker B: Oh, yeah, yeah, definitely. So they, they pair you and, and Bubba up and I mean, the visual of you and big Bubba and then little Bruno and, you know, Bruno could go out there and talk all the he wanted to. He could do whatever. It wasn't nobody going to get their hands on as long as, you know, big Bubba and Goliath was standing there. What, the downtown connection. I, I remember as a kid, I was about 10 years old when you guys showed up there. And even though I was, you know, I was a typical fan, I mean, I love Lawler and all that, but I always enjoyed seeing you guys just like, God, these guys are so big. How's anybody going to beat them, you know? [00:11:42] Speaker A: Yeah, well, we both over £400. [00:11:45] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:11:45] Speaker A: So, yeah, I was probably more than what they said I was, but I never got weighed, so I knew I was over 400. That's all I can tell you. [00:11:55] Speaker B: Speaking of that, so did you and Bubba travel together and, and how challenging was that to get vehicles that was comfortable for you guys to ride all over this territory? [00:12:05] Speaker A: Well, he, Bruno had a car. We, we rode with Bruno for a while, me and Bubba, and Bubba had his Jeep. So me and Bubba started taking a Jeep and Bruno had somebody else in the car. So we all just kind of left our separate ways and me and Bubba started riding together, you know, talking over what we're going to maybe do in the ring, what we do tonight, you know, whatever's going to go on in the ring, if it's the same, you know, what happened on TV last week, let's try to change it up up here in Louisville and different in Evansville, too. You know, be, you know, you got to try to at least do something. A lot of time, I remember the first couple times down there, we did the exact same match as we did in Memphis. The next week we did the exact same match in Louisville. [00:12:51] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:12:52] Speaker A: You know, so. And then it started. People were starting to, you know, I guess catch on to that. We all tried to change it, I guess, you know, you know, told, we're told, hey, different finish, but have some different stuff in the middle, you know. [00:13:07] Speaker B: Yeah, because they, I guess that was challenging. You know, they had that, what they call bicycling the tape where whatever you did in Memphis this week, you did that on Monday. But for the rest of the week, you were doing what you did in Memphis the previous week in Evansville, Louisville, Nashville, around the horn, and then you start over again. So I guess, you know, I guess. And I know Bruno did most of the talking, nearly all the talking, I guess. But you got to keep up when you do these promos, like, oh, wait a minute, what town is this? What week are we on? Or you're not talking about the wrong match. [00:13:38] Speaker A: So I've always been good at it now because I have. I have too many brain lapses. But back then, I. I did talk on the mic, and they told me to take, you know, do it more, you know, so. And then I broke my leg. [00:13:50] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:13:51] Speaker A: I think I got a couple of times when I got on the mic, and that was it, you know. [00:13:56] Speaker B: Yeah. Which made it really stand out when you did, you know, it was like, oh, you know, he said something. He means it. You know, this is unusual. [00:14:05] Speaker A: That's where I usually am with people when I was bouncing. If I tell you something, you start talking. You better listen, you know, I could. [00:14:15] Speaker B: See that, man, for sure now. You turned up as the super heavyweight champion, and I was always curious. It was really a really nice belt. It's just like all of a sudden, you were champion and we didn't. I don't know if I missed it or what, but I never really talked about who you beat for it. And so where did you win that? Where did that go down? Or was that one of those phantom things? [00:14:36] Speaker A: Yeah, it was a phantom thing as I, you know, I supposedly beat Abdul the Butcher for it. [00:14:40] Speaker B: Right. [00:14:41] Speaker A: And that's what they were, you know, behind us, you know, in the studio at the TV that time, and they're, you know, and they had a tournament for the belt after I, you know, I had it off of Butcher. But then they had a tournament for everybody else that Uncle Elmer come back, Scott hall, come in there. Jerry Blackwell. So there was like an elimination process, you know, tier, you know, and then I ended up wrestling Uncle Elmer. And he won the belt back. Yeah, it was his belt. [00:15:15] Speaker B: Okay. That was. [00:15:16] Speaker A: He wanted 2500. He wanted 2500 for the belt. And I'm like, oh, you can do it. If you take it. You could take it to any. Any, you know, territory anywhere, and that's your belt. And then you get to wrestle somebody for it and then win it back. I'm like, 2500, buddy. I don't have right now. That was just when I was getting in. I said, I don't know, 2500 bucks. I went down there, almost broke. Yeah. Down to Memphis. [00:15:44] Speaker B: So, I mean, it wasn't. [00:15:47] Speaker A: I borrowed a lot of money off of Bruno. I mean, I owed Bruno a lot. [00:15:51] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:15:51] Speaker A: I wrecked his car, but I also paid him all back. I mean, he bought me food when we first got down there, and. And I. My first paycheck. Boom. Paid him back, you know. [00:16:02] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:16:04] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:16:04] Speaker B: You worked with. With Uncle Elmer, and we talked a little bit about him last time. But how. You know, you got down there and you worked for several people. Now you're in the ring with Uncle Elmer. How was that? [00:16:17] Speaker A: He wasn't. I mean, he was okay. Easy to work with. I mean, he doesn't do much. [00:16:22] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:16:23] Speaker A: You know, but I had some good matches with him. And then one time, I forget. It was almost near the end of. I was working with him, and he goes, man, I want you to hit me with a forearm across the chest, man. You hit. You hit me hard, man. I'm like, dude, I hit you pretty hard. You know, I'm like, geez, I know my. My forearm so good, you know, because I'm bringing it from way back and hitting them. And I thought I hit him pretty good. I thought I told you. And he hits me with a forearm. Yeah. Was I expecting it? No. I thought he was gonna work for me. He blasted me, but I didn't fall down. I stumbled backwards and tied myself up in the ropes. And the referees like, what the. And then we heard a boom, and uncle mom was on his back, looking like a turtle upside down. He couldn't get up. He was, like, wiggling around, waving his arms. And finally he grabbed onto the rope and he pulled himself over. And the referee helped keep me in the ropes because I didn't get into the twist there. [00:17:28] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:17:28] Speaker A: Too good with my arms, and he. He put them in for me. Then Uncle Elmer come over and started beating the hell out of me. And then he grabbed me in the locker room at Memphis Coliseum. He tried to tell me this and tell me that, and Jerry King Lawler pulled me in his room, goes, don't listen to him. I go, I ain't. You know, I know what I can do. I know my punches. I. I never hurt anybody, you know, so why should I? Why do you want to hurt him? You know, he's a big guy, but I'm sure he could take it. Yeah. You know? Sure. But I didn't know. A lot of people talked about him like, he's a this and that and, you know, didn't like him or whatever. He's got a lot of, you know, hot wind, you know, And I say, well, who? You know, I don't. I don't bother with that. Everybody's a tough guy. There's always somebody tougher than you. That's the way I look at it. Yeah, there's always somebody to take the crime, you know. [00:18:24] Speaker B: Yeah. About him being a hustler and, you know, trying to sell fake watches and like that. [00:18:30] Speaker A: It's like most wrestlers are hustling about the fake watches. Oh, yeah. [00:18:38] Speaker B: That's why I figure, you know, that belt, it probably was worth a couple of grand, is a really nice belt back in that time. But I promise you, Stan Frazier didn't pay $2,500 for that belt. There's no telling how he came about having it, you know. [00:18:50] Speaker A: You know, I would say it probably. Maybe I don't know what a belt costs. Like, you know, Jerry. You know, Jerry's belt on there, the midsoth, you know, tag team champions. I don't know what they. How much they charge to make him. It's leather and steel with some paint on it, you know, or, you know, some glowing paint or whatever, you know, shiny paint and some shiny gold paint to make it look good. But other than that, how much is it really, you know? Yeah, I figured. I figured it was only worth maybe a thousand at best, but. Yeah, well, I get it. I would have loved taking it. I would have loved to bought it, and then I could have come back to Pittsburgh with it, you know, and use it in the indie things back. [00:19:28] Speaker B: Here, because it was a lot nicer belt than what Lawler and Em are using in the territory. [00:19:33] Speaker A: You know, it looked like one of Vince's belts, you know, it was big. Yeah, that belt was super heavy. I mean, if you thought it was heavy, it was definitely heavy. It definitely weighed something, you know, it had what the big main thing and then four. Four little metals around it, you know, it definitely was made for a big guy, because it could fit around me. [00:19:56] Speaker B: Yeah, I use it. [00:19:57] Speaker A: Yeah, I'm glad. [00:19:58] Speaker B: That's one of the pictures that's floating around out there, is you with that belt. [00:20:00] Speaker A: That's cool. I mostly carried it, you know, carried it to the ring, you know, but it was. It was a nice belt. I will say that. I wish I'd have it today. [00:20:12] Speaker B: You mentioned Jerry Blackwell. That's another big guy you worked with around that time. I've never heard anybody say a bad word about Jerry Blackwell. How was he to deal with just. [00:20:20] Speaker A: In general, he was great. You know, I. I just met him and we were, you know, getting into a little program there, and I caught. We were down at. At the Mid South Coliseum. We were doing interviews and Jerry walked in. I'm like, I heard you pretty stiff. I said, yeah, give me a kick to a stomach, you know. And he. He definitely kicked me, but I turned around, like, making it like, oh, okay, okay, if that's what you got. But it wasn't. I mean, if that's what he got, I can handle that in the ring. But he. He definitely threw some clotheslines on me, man. I mean, choke. I mean, I was down on the ground, you know, get areas. You're okay? Yeah, yeah. You know, but I was okay. Just. Man, he caught me so good with it around the neck, you know, I even tried to speed up my kick out before he get my. His arm to my face. It didn't work. He got me again. I'm like, so how was that? [00:21:17] Speaker B: Damn. [00:21:19] Speaker A: What's that? [00:21:20] Speaker B: How was that drop kick of his? You know, he's not somebody you expect to throw a drop kick, but he could get up there in people's face with them. [00:21:27] Speaker A: Yeah, I think he did that like the back where he jumped up and then just kicked forward. I. I wasn't sure because I, you know, he just kicked me in the stomach. I don't know if the match. We had a job kick in there or not, but they great matches with him. So, you know, then all of a sudden he's gone and all of a sudden he left the territory. I don't know what happened. [00:21:50] Speaker B: Yeah, by 87, he may not have been through with them drop kicks anymore. Now that you mentioned it. [00:21:55] Speaker A: I was wondering if he had some type of. Maybe not feeling well too, you know? Yeah, his. I don't know. Like I said, I. We had great matches and I wouldn't know, but it just seemed like he wasn't. Oh there when we're talking together, you know, like he had something else on his mind, you know, which a lot of the guys do, you know, somebody. [00:22:18] Speaker B: Else you had a singles match with there that people seem to kind of run hot or cold on. They either really like them or they really don't. Austin Idol. [00:22:27] Speaker A: Yeah, Austin. Austin, another great guy. You know, like, Jerry had a lot of. A lot of ring presence, you know, a lot of psychology in that ring. And we went out to dinner one time. Me, Austin, Big Bubba, his wife and his kid. And we had a nice dinner and had a nice talk at the table, and then we went to the zoo together. [00:22:53] Speaker B: Oh, wow. [00:22:53] Speaker A: Him and his wife and his kid. Yeah, we went to the Memphis Zoo. [00:22:57] Speaker B: I had to be. [00:22:58] Speaker A: The gorillas were trying to break out of the glass case they were in. They were slamming into the, I guess bulletproof glass, you want to call it, But I. I swear it looked like it was 4 inches thick. And we were. We weren't even standing. Me and Bubba weren't even standing there. Austin's next to him, and we're standing there like, what the heck's going on with them gorillas? And this gorilla runs from the back and slams into the window. And it starts, you know, and I went, whoa, that's. That better. That glass better hold at you. So then I guess one of the zoo people come up and goes, hey, guys, I don't know that glass is supposed to be strong enough to hold him because I don't like the way that was looking either. I go, we're leaving. I said, I'll outrun him. And I pointed to Bubba. He goes, no, you won't. I said, yes, I will, because I'm a trip yet. But, yeah, we had a great time. I mean, Austin, I never knew he was in that accident until, you know, I first met him. I said, he was on a plane and it crashed. I go, wow, that. That was something that. Survive it. [00:24:01] Speaker B: Yeah. And basically come back a whole new man. Because, I mean, if you look at Mike McCord and then Austin Otto, you'd never guess that was the same guy. And he certainly never guess he's, you know, suffered injuries in a plane crash. [00:24:12] Speaker A: Yeah, it was like Ric Flair. When he. Yeah, his first pictures, I went, that's Rick Flair. You know, I looked at somebody goes, ric Flair. When he was. I'm like, nah, that ain't. And then I looked deeper and seen his eyes. Yeah, that is him. He was like, heavy. He was like a chubby guy kind of, you know. [00:24:29] Speaker B: Yeah, it's. It's wild to see those pictures of him back when he was running around training with Ken Patera, like lifting, like heavy lifting and all that, you know. [00:24:38] Speaker A: Will return after these messages. Relive the glory days of Memphis wrestling with the Retro Wrestling Review USWA Podcast. Each week we go back in time to review USWA Championship Wrestling from the 1990s, episode by episode. Join us for watch alongs behind the scenes stories and exclusive interviews with people who were there at and lived it. Whether you grew up watching it or you're discovering it for the first time, this podcast is your ringside seat to Memphis Wrestling history. It's all a part of the Wrestlecopia Podcast network. Listen [email protected] Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to Give Me Back My Pro Wrestling. The podcast that's based on the old school but can still help you find the good stuff from today. Jimmy street and the plastic chic Jared are the undisputed tag team champions of the wrestling podcast world. From thought provoking topics to superstar interviews to action figure expertise, this team does it all. And all they ask is give me back my pro wrestling every other Thursday wherever you listen to podcasts. Tired of the same boring wrestling podcast? Need something with attitude, chaos and maybe just a little cussing. That's STSPOD Club and we got it all covered. We've got got wrestling weirdness with WTF news desk. 5 minute time limit in the southern fried brain of me BTS during the whole ship. We also have rolling into Mempho every week about the current Memphis wrestler interviews. Hot takes in wrestling outrageousness so wild it might get you banned. Land in 12 states. That's right, it's SDS Pod Club. Or search all podcast catchers for shooting the shiznid where wrestling podcasts grow chest hair. [00:26:59] Speaker B: Not sure what that meant. Love my mama. So here was an interesting result I came across from 1-20-87. It says six man tag team combined boxing and wrestling match. The Memphis Vice, Jerry Bryant, Lou Winston and Emily Arthur versus the Downtown Connection. Big Bubba, Goliath and Downtown Bruno. Now how does a combination box and wrestling six man tag match work exactly? [00:27:30] Speaker A: You know, I do remember doing, but I can't remember the specifics of the, the match, but I remember Bruno getting hell beat out of them from that girl. She's. She slapped it, man. I could, I was in, you know, we were in another match. I guess it was like a. We were like the lumberjacks. Yeah, I think they had a lumberjack with her and him and that girl and this girl, I mean she turned around and whacked him. Which we knew it was coming. You know, we already worked it out in the back and man, Bruno's worm, I mean he flew right towards us. It was. No, he wasn't selling. That was what. She hit him. He goes. Because me and Bubba grabbed him and hold them. He's like, man, she really hit me. I go, oh yeah, she don't know what she's doing, buddy. I don't think she's ever been in the business. [00:28:17] Speaker B: Bruno can take a hit because he took some in his day. You go back and watch some of the stuff, especially those women. Emily Arthur, Miss Texas. He. He took his fair share of beatings. He earned it. [00:28:28] Speaker A: Yeah, he. He didn't like it. I will say this. He was kind of skeptical about getting in the ring with a girl, you know, what's going on? You know, I guess figuring out. Trying to figure out what the promo, you know, promotion was trying to get out of it, you know, which. Me and Bubba just shook our shoulders like, hey, we don't know, you know, Don't. Don't look at us. We're. We're still in a black, too. We can't see either. We can't figure out what's going on, you know. Next thing you know, we're in the King's court. There with Brown was that house Brown. He was our. He was our prince. And Bruno turned into the Jekyll. I was like, what the heck is going on? And then here I was, Goliath, and had to get some costume made up, which I couldn't get it done in a week. But I didn't realize you could just. I should have just went to a costume place. [00:29:19] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:29:21] Speaker A: Because I didn't know. I'm like, who. Who could make me a uniform to look like Goliath? You know, I don't know. And Jerry King Lawler came up with it. He get ready as soon as that night, as soon as that day, coming into the. The studio, he goes, here, this is going to be your new outfit for Goliath. I said, wow. There. I don't know what was going on. I said, I couldn't get the guy to get. Get done with my project I had him doing. And I said, I think he ripped me off. Which he did. The guy never. I never seen the guy again. And he, he had my hundred and something dollars to get things started, you know, you live and learn. [00:29:58] Speaker B: Yeah, well, that was sadly pretty common with a lot of those gear makers and different people like that on the Peripheral. [00:30:04] Speaker A: I'm sure everybody, everybody that's been in wrestling, somebody's coming up to offer you a big deal and say, hey, you give me 10,000, I'll make you 50, you know, and there goes your 10,000. Yeah, I have seen that a lot in life. So. [00:30:20] Speaker B: That, that loop of the Memphis territory, what, what was, you know, besides the spot towns and then the, the weekly towns? What was some of your favorite spots besides Memphis that you enjoyed working in? [00:30:36] Speaker A: I. I like Nashville and Louisville. Evansville wasn't such a big payday, but, you know, you could. It was big. I mean, not big But I mean, you had a lot of place to talk behind the stage and keep everything, you know, under the, under the blanket, I guess you want to call it. But I like Nashville because when we're done in Nashville night, you know, on Saturday night, we just, it was, you know, you got out at 11 o', clock, 12 o'. Clock. [00:31:05] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:31:06] Speaker A: And me and Bubba didn't drink, but it was nice to just get back to home and get some sleep, you know. Yeah, Saturday night was our extra night to get a little extra, you know. [00:31:16] Speaker B: Yeah, I heard that Bill Dundee's old partner, George Barnes, you know, they came in there as the Australians and, and caused a ruckus in the 70s. And then Barnes went back to Australia and then in 87 he returned and had a feud with Bill. I know you teamed with Barnes a few times there. How was George Barnes? Was he like the guy he depicted on tv? [00:31:42] Speaker A: Even though, I mean, he depicted on TV back in the back of, you know, good times, good conversation, talk about this, talk about that. I'll do like that. You know, last week at that match, hey, was that a good crowd? You know, I thought he was a nice guy. You know, I didn't have no problems with him. [00:32:01] Speaker B: I've just always been curious. I haven't never had a lot of insight on him. But you see, you hear some interesting stories about him from over the years, but I didn't know that well. [00:32:12] Speaker A: I didn't know he tagged with Bill Dundee. I thought Bill Dundee was a superstar all his life, you know. [00:32:19] Speaker B: No, they came in, yeah, they came in as the big heel tag team from Australia and got over huge and was big box office. And then George got homesick, went back home to Australia. And that's when Bill think, trying to think who dubbed him the superstar, if it was Jimmy Valiant or somebody. And then he took off and, you know, became the superstar on his own. And then George came back. I don't think it was ever intended to be more than what it was, just like come back for the summer or whatever. [00:32:48] Speaker A: But, you know, when I broke in and down there, she partners were there. Jonathan Boyd. Oh, yeah, and a guy from Pittsburgh. They called him Bigfoot. And he, he went down there before I did, like probably maybe two, three weeks. Then we heard in the background that, you know, I don't think they were going to keep him. When I was, you know, in the locker room, you heard a little stuff behind everything. I'm like, I looked at Bruno, I said, poor Bigfoot, man. I didn't see anything really. But Then he didn't have the ring. Psychology. Guido didn't teach him, you know, none. Nobody taught him. We just, you know, everybody just did moves, but you got to have psychology. What are you trying to present to the fans out there? You know, so. Yeah, and you have to think like that. What. What. What's the fans perceiving? [00:33:35] Speaker B: You know, what kind of guy was Jonathan Boyd? [00:33:41] Speaker A: He was great. I rode home with him a couple times. We talked about the business. He was good. But he. He was crazy, too, man. He. He opened up the hard way on TV with the belt. He kept smacking himself in the head with the belt. Next thing you know, all his buds coming. I go, man, he just cracked his head with that steel belt. Oh, man, he's crazy. But he had tattoos. He was getting his tattoo before he, you know, before your eyes. I broke my leg, and it was all his whole back. [00:34:12] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:34:12] Speaker A: I said, man, that's a lot of money. That's a lot of time. He goes, oh, I still ain't nowhere near done. I. I don't know if he ever got it finished or not. Yeah. Jonathan after that, so he was a good guy. Even Tojo. Tojo Yamato. We rode together, and he gave us. He gave me a little insight to the business. Calm down. He goes, you know, you're a big man. Relax. You know, don't. Don't get like that in the locker room. Save it for another day, you know, I was mad. I don't know what. What happened that night, but I was pissed. And Tojo goes, hey, why don't you ride home with me tonight? I'm like, oh, here. I'm gonna get the office here. Because Tojo was considered office. You know, he's been around so long, everybody. Everybody said he had a little ear, you know, a little ear in the. In the office, that people listen to him, you know, so. [00:35:04] Speaker B: Oh, yeah, he was tight with Jerry Jarrett, so. Yeah, I'm sure he was right there. Right there with him. [00:35:10] Speaker A: Oh, he always brought up matches between him and Jerry, you know, what they did, you know, and, yeah, this is what we do. That's what, you know, we made it good. Jerry, just sell it, man. I'd beat the hell out. [00:35:26] Speaker B: It's. You know, it's funny. He was really memorable because around the Memphis, around Nashville, and then even down here in Alabama, like Birmingham, you know, where he worked down here for gulas, people of a certain age. You mentioned wrestling and one of the first names out of their mouth. Oh, I remember old Tojo with those wooden Shoes, you know, he made an impression on people. [00:35:45] Speaker A: I. I was. I was amazed how he walked on him. Things don't. They hurt? Oh, this is the way to do it. Well, I wore these shoes all. I'm like, man, I don't know. Give me a pair of nice slippers, man. [00:35:59] Speaker B: Yeah, he was a tough guy just to walk around in those shoes, I'm sure. [00:36:03] Speaker A: I bet he had some matches he could talk about. But I remember he destroyed some guy on tv. The kid. The kid was in the back a jobber, and he started talking. He's in six degree black belt. He feels no pain. And I can see Tojo looking out of the corner of his eye going. So he turned this. Oh, you black belt, huh? You know, and they. I guess they threw him out of the ring. And Tojo beat the hell out of that kendo stick. And I felt bad for the guy had he was so open up, back in front. And then Tojo come back, goes, hey, I think you need some rubbing alcohol with that. You want some alcohol to clean that up? He goes. And he ran out of the locker room with his. Grabbed his gear and ran out. I don't even think he waited for his thing. [00:36:51] Speaker B: Yeah, there's a. There's a few stories of different guys over the years who decided it wasn't for them and just grabbed their bags without changing and hit the road. [00:37:00] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:37:01] Speaker B: Yes. That's the way to do it sometimes. You and Bubba had some matches with the Midnight Rockers, Marty Janetti and Shawn Michaels. Did you have any inkling that Shawn Michaels would go on to be the megastar that he turned out to be? Be? [00:37:16] Speaker A: I. I thought Marty Janetti had a. A better between the two. I thought Marty was a better, nicer guy, you know, and he really into the. And he'd do his moves and everything in the ring. It. It seemed like me and him, everything was smooth. But then at the end, we. We done with our matches, you know, Sean, pick him up, shake your hands, you know, boop. Walk out of the room, man, did I do something wrong? You know, but that's. I guess that's his personality. But then I. I met him again. I went to a WWF match and I was in the locker room, and I was ready to walk out and just see who's out in the hallway. And here he come out from behind his curtain, behind. In the locker room. I said, hey, Sean. He turned around, didn't know who I was, and I said, goliath. And he hurried up and ran, you know, walked away, didn't even kind of acknowledge me, but. Yeah, but if you ain't with the wwf, everything's kfab, you know, you're walking in no matter if you're with another league or not. They don't. You don't get to hear anything, you know? In fact, I got kicked out by Tony Bea in Pittsburgh. I was back here talking, and all of a sudden, I was sitting on a bench. I was talking with Jerry, Jeff Jarrett and the men on a mission. We're in a room, and all of a sudden I hear something in my ear, you got to get out of here. You ain't lying here, Tony Korea, right in my face. And I said, I'm one of the boys. You ain't one of the boys here. Wow. I said, okay, man. I said, I'm leaving, you know, you don't have to tell me twice. I'll get out, you know. [00:38:58] Speaker B: What a prick. [00:38:59] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, because I was in there before. I was in that locker room before with Jerry the King Lawler, Macho man, and Kurt Angle. I mean, Kurt Henning. Henning, yeah. Yeah. They were in a shar stall. One of them had a beer. I'm not going to say who had a beer, but there, you know, I see a Budweiser can come out behind a curtain. They're like. I said, hey, I just want to let you know, Macho man noted one of the Penguin guys were out there with his kids. He couldn't wait any much longer. I said, he said, you were going to sign an autograph for him. They look at me like I'm some type of clown. I guess. I guess I was a client by going back there and. Hey, ain't you gonna sign an autograph for the dude? You know, Macho Man. You're really gonna turn this guy down? He's a Pittsburgh Penguin, you know, World champions. [00:39:51] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:39:51] Speaker A: And he never went out. The guy go back out? I said, yeah. He said, he's coming. We stood there for about five minutes. Penguin, hockey guy, he left. [00:40:01] Speaker B: Wow. [00:40:02] Speaker A: I went, what the hell, man? You know, that's. That's shot. Yeah, I'm sure he'd sign a. He'd sign an autograph for your kid, Macho man, you know? [00:40:12] Speaker B: Yeah, you hate to see that, when people kind of forget where they come from and, you know, get too big for their britches, so to speak. [00:40:20] Speaker A: Yeah. Macho man, was it. I. I really. I didn't see him around in the locker room that much when he was down there on a couple matches with us and he stayed away, you know, more or less away from us. You know, he didn't come over to Jaggeran or say something about, you know, whatever. He mainly stayed near Jared the King Lawler, you know, and they. I guess they're working their match out or whatever, and they talking all the times, you know, after. [00:40:46] Speaker B: I always heard he was an odd guy in general, you know, so that kind of tracks from everything I've ever heard. [00:40:53] Speaker A: I'm sure he was on some heavy. [00:40:56] Speaker B: Oh, for sure. [00:40:59] Speaker A: No doubt. [00:41:01] Speaker B: So I'm gonna run down some names of guys you worked with. Why are you in Memphis as Goliath? And just, you know, give me kind of your first thought or any funny stories you might have about them. First one on the list is Pat Tanaka. [00:41:15] Speaker A: Pat, yeah. One of the first guys I really worked against, I think singly before me and Bubba got together. Pat, great guy. Love Pat, he. He got me out of more situations with my neck. Him and Sato was always cracking my neck for, you know, I was shoulders, whatever. But Pat, always a good guy. He always. He was funny because he always had some girl or two girls in his room, you know, I went. I went down to his room, I said, hey, man, I need you to crack my man. I'm busy. I see you are. How about Sharon, brother? You know, but, you know, he wait, he goes, come down in an hour, you know, he twist my neck with that towel, and, man, I felt so much better, you know? But Pat, he. He told me to throw him in the ropes and give him a bear hug. After I chased him around the ring for like 4.4laps. I get in the ropes, I catch him, I throw him in, he goes, bear hug. And I bear. I was bear hugging them. I'm like, okay. And I'm talking. All right. Ear slap, brother. He goes, no, not yet. Not yet. I was. My legs were blowing up from running, you know? Yeah, running, whatever. I don't know, you know, I don't really know because I had another match with them, and it went way better than that, but I dropped them. I said, I can't. So I kind of, like, slammed him on his back, and I was. And I grab him, he goes, do it again. I go, what do you want me to throw you in a bear hug again? I'm like, oh, man, I'm. So I throw him in. This time I was holding bottom, I thought the same length. He finally slaps his ears. I'm like, jesus, thank you. I sold the. Out of him slapping my ears. But he was a great guy, you know? We played cards, you know, back in the locker room, we played spades, you know, Hearts. [00:43:08] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:43:08] Speaker A: And everybody was a. Everybody was the best player, you know. Don't you know what you're doing? You don't know how to bid. I'm like, dude, you taught me what the. Each card's worth. I said, I got my five. I didn't know I had seven. But, man, everybody took it seriously and, you know, betting on it and all that stuff, so. [00:43:29] Speaker B: Pat was super talented. He's one of those guys. I think if he would have been a foot taller, he probably could have had a whole different career. [00:43:36] Speaker A: Yeah, great worker. I mean, he. He was as good as anybody, and I mean, pack at work, and I didn't see him at the gym a lot, so I never seen him get really tired, you know, get. Get blown up in the ring, you know, in any match where they just fighting, you know, for five, five, ten minutes outside the ring, you know. Yeah. And like I said, very, very good ring guy. He'd definitely call a good match for you. Now, another guy, it helps him out if he. If he makes me look a little bit good, and then he shines at the end when he wins for sure. [00:44:16] Speaker B: Another guy that. I don't know if he worked against him, but I'm sure y' all are. I think y' all were kind of in a stable together. But he was a million different mass gimmicks over the years, and Memphis and I got to be around with. Around him a lot later in the 90s. Don Bass. [00:44:30] Speaker A: Oh, love Don. A lot of good conversations in the back and hearing stories. I would just love to sit next to him in the locker room, get a locker, you know, next to him and sit, you know, Don. Listen to him and get a little insight on, you know, if you go, hey, man, what you do? Why don't you do this in that match instead of doing it that way, you know? Hey, I always like this match, you know, he just didn't do much. I mean, he wasn't like, overly killing with clotheslines or punching or kicking. He just had the little moves, like, you know, flipping the guys around, and then, you know, he'd take his bump and whatever happened, you know, or hit him with the guitar. I remember he had that guitar singing Cowboy. Cowboy, yeah. But what a great guy. He was really so nice in the background. I don't know what other people thought about him, but I always liked he. When he was on a card and we were in the locker room together. [00:45:25] Speaker B: You know, I've Never heard anybody say a bad word about him. He's so entertaining. Like, I. I felt like after wrestling, he could have had a career as a comedian or in some other form of entertainment because he was just hilarious. And like you said, he had so many stories, like a Jerry Clower or something, you know? [00:45:41] Speaker A: Yeah. Now, did you say that? Yeah, he could have definitely been because he had stories, jokes, and little. Little tidbits, you know, he'd throw in there. And, you know, when I was down here, when I was over there and I always, like I said, I always enjoyed sitting with Dawn Bass. I really liked him. I really missed him when I broke my leg, because I'd like seeing him every once in a while in a card in Arkansas he was on. I don't know where he lived, but it seemed like anytime we were in Arkansas or Mississippi, Donnie Bass was on one of the cards. [00:46:12] Speaker B: You know, he was over there, close to. To West Memphis, I believe, or at least the time I knew immediately. Of course, you know, he referred to it as Greasy Corner, Arkansas, but it was just outside of West Memphis there. [00:46:26] Speaker A: Yeah, right. Right next to Sid. Yeah. [00:46:30] Speaker B: Neighbors with Sid. [00:46:34] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:46:36] Speaker B: Well, he was in a little bit around that time as. As Lord Humongous. And this would have been, like, right at the beginning of his career as well. How was he at that point? [00:46:46] Speaker A: Oh, great. We lifted together. In fact, me and Bubba, you know, went over to have dinner at his house with his wife and his newly born son, and he got some steaks grilled out, had baked potatoes, and we lifted at that gym in Memphis a lot when we were down there. And he was a good guy in the locker room, too. You know, sometimes, you know, something's on their mind. They don't talk to you right away, and you kind of walk away like, well, mad at me. But then the next, you know, next hour, he's talking to you like old buddies. But when I met him in the wwf, he seemed like. I went up to him, I said, hey, what's up, fid? He said, didn't seem like he was too enthusiastic about seeing me, you know? Yeah. He goes, oh, what'd you do? I said, oh, hey, I broke my leg and went back to Pittsburgh, and I'm just trying to get back in it, brother, you know. And next thing you know, he just got up and walked away from me. So, like, he didn't say, hey, good talking with you and walk away. I just gave it kind of look like, well, I guess he has more important than. Yeah, that was down Wheeling. [00:47:54] Speaker B: I got you here's a guy that everybody, every man I talk to has a lot of fun stories about. I know you and Bubba wrestled him and Jeff, Jared a lot. Billy Travis. [00:48:06] Speaker A: I didn't have no problem. Billy tried to get, I guess too much. Jeff was cool. I didn't have really any problem with Billy except for when he wanted me to. He goes, let me pick you up and slam you. And then thank God somebody was right there around there and said, hey man, you don't want to be slammed by him. I said, well, you know, you know, we're in the, they're the tag team champions, you know. And he goes, no, you say bad slamming for Jerry the King. And I said, really? I said. He goes, well, just, you know, that's, that's his, you know, don't let him do it. And I'm like, you know, I said, okay. And then he wanted to do it. He, he tried. I'm like, hey, dude, I'm not doing it, bro. He goes, what? They started getting a little bit, you know, physical. But I go, yeah, that ain't nothing that if that's the hardest you can punch, then you should not be in wrestling. But I, like I said, I, I've never had problem as soon as we talk about the match, getting things together for the match. I didn't have no problem if he come up, said, hey, you want to do this double flip over, you know, or I come off the top rope or whatever and you know, drop kick. Yeah, you know, then you go down, then go into this or whatever. I said, hey, I'll do that, you know. Yeah, we could do that. So I, I liked working against Jeff and Billy, but then have a short lived too. [00:49:26] Speaker B: Yeah, we mentioned his name earlier when I mentioned George Barnes. But how was building D to work with. [00:49:33] Speaker A: I only got a couple times worked with him. I think we worked. I worked with him up in Indiana and there was a show. I don't know why we, we were up in Indiana. I didn't know if our TV went up at high maybe because it was only maybe 50 miles from Louisville, but it was the university that Larry Bird went to. [00:49:57] Speaker B: Okay. [00:49:57] Speaker A: And we were, we put on a match here and we were playing basketball beforehand, me and Bill, before the crowd ever come in. We were playing two bonds playing against each other. And I was like, you are really short, man. But we had a match that night together, so they needed to be safe. I mean he called, he called it and I, you know, made, made the, made the match in the show look good. You Know, I. I didn't have no Carl's work with him, even though he was like half my size. [00:50:31] Speaker B: As entertaining as a wrestling match between Bill Dundee and Goliath sounds. Basketball game between the Goliath and Bill, they needed to have been recording that. [00:50:41] Speaker A: Some other guys come in on it, you know, on the game, too. You know, we all started. Who could shoot a three pointer? Who could dunk? I could dunk, but, you know, not. Not after I got into wrestling so much. But I. I still did it. I did it at a match down in Mississippi. We're in the gym, like 60 yards away from the. This, the ring. They said, can you do it? And I. I took. I was in full boots gear. I was ready to go out to the ring, and I went up, I dunked it, but, man, I think I gave a little shock to the knee, like, you know, gave a little snag, I guess you want to call it. But I. I wrestled that night, and Bill, in fact, that match, Bill chased me around the whole hundred yards of this football field with a cattle prod. [00:51:30] Speaker B: Oh, God. [00:51:31] Speaker A: Because, hey, if I got up on you, I'm gonna hit you with that. Sell it. So, you know, I'm tired of my back to him, and I'm like, you know, talking to somebody else. And, man, he hit me with that cattle prod. And I went around it. I said, what? He's live, man. I think I go, man, no wonder cows move when they get hit with that, you know? And I started running. I look over my shoulder, he's right behind me, chasing the hell out, man. I kept running. I'm thinking, he ain't getting me again. So I kept running. I could hear him giggling, and everybody got a big kick out of it that, you know, when we got Memphis or whatever, every. Oh, you were funny running around that field. You big. You big man. You were running for your life. I said, I was. Don't. Don't think I wasn't. I thought he was gonna hit me a couple more times with that damn thing, you know. [00:52:17] Speaker B: Oh, that's hilarious. [00:52:22] Speaker A: I liked hearing his stories, too. You know, him and, you know, Jared and King Lawler. You know, you get any time you were any. Any. Anybody around, it was in the business for a while. It was. It was so great to sit next to him and listen to a lot of. Just a story or two. [00:52:37] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:52:37] Speaker A: And to get little insights on matches, you know, of what to do. And it was always a little psychology in any conversation he had around, you know. [00:52:47] Speaker B: Yeah. The amount of the Amount of money those two drew together in Memphis as both partners and opponents is just, you know, unparalleled. [00:52:56] Speaker A: It's. [00:52:57] Speaker B: It's pretty crazy. [00:52:59] Speaker A: Oh, yeah, that's for sure. Oh, yeah, yeah. [00:53:07] Speaker B: Another guy you worked with, it was pretty early in his career, Tracy Smothers. What do you remember about Tracy? [00:53:13] Speaker A: Ah, great guy. I have no problem with him. Never did. I. In fact, I liked working with him. We had some great matches together. But I broke my leg in the ring with. With Tracy up in Louisville. [00:53:25] Speaker B: Oh, I didn't realize that's who you was in there with when that happened. [00:53:27] Speaker A: I was in. Yeah. And Richard Lee, who became the Moondog's manager, he was the referee. [00:53:34] Speaker B: Wow. [00:53:34] Speaker A: So. And then here, you know, later, he's the one that called me to become a Moondog. [00:53:39] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:53:40] Speaker A: You know, so what was actually going on there? But, yeah, I was in the ring with Tracy, and I. I went to slam him in the. In the corner, run at him, and slam in the corner. He moved, and I said, okay. When I turn around, hit me with a drop kick. Well, my leg must have got stuck in the. In the. What do you call it? The tarp. [00:54:05] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:54:05] Speaker A: I couldn't get my leg out. And he hits me with another drop kick. And I look and see where the ropes are, and I tried to fly back and catch him. So I didn't fall on my. But I missed the ropes, and I fell right on my leg. My leg snapped. It was definitely stuck on something, you know? Yeah. You know, I. I seen some things. I would never think Tracy was like that because he seemed like a nice, really nice guy, and he just wanted to make it in the business, you know, just be anybody else, you know? And I heard stories that he, you know, hurt a lot of people, and he did it purposely. I'm like, I can't remember. I don't remember him doing anything to me. I. I broke my leg. I don't think Tracy had anything to do with it. [00:54:45] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:54:45] Speaker A: Because he looked even more, I guess, surprised and. And worried that I did break my leg in the ring, because when Richard Lee went over to him and said, hey, his legs broke. He went around, you know, Richard Lee shoulder looked at me, and his eyes were real big. He said, no. You know, And I said, hey, dude, I don't know what to do, you know, I said, how are we going to finish it? I was supposed to win. [00:55:09] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:55:10] Speaker A: But I said, I ain't. I can't move. I. I said my leg was, like, thumping, you know, my. It just hung like A. Like an old sock off a. You know, a line, you know, dangling, you know. And I said, hey, tell them to pin me. Get it over with, you know, I was supposed to take 10 straps from the fans. And I looked at Randy Hills, he goes, you gotta take 10 straps. I'm on the gurney. I said, the first person hits me with a belt, I'll get up off this gurney. I'm gonna tell you that right now. I'll be really bite. I know your legs broke, but the stipulation is a stipulation, brother. Yeah, yeah. And then the. Well, what helped was the. The two paramedics, they're like, hey, look at his leg. He's been sitting and sticking on. You know, he snapped that damn thing. You can't make him go get. He's on a gurney. You know, I just read you go in the hospital. [00:56:04] Speaker B: Like, where'd you go? These welts. Well, after I snapped my leg into. They whipped me with straps. Who? The fans? [00:56:11] Speaker A: Well, he took the straps down in Memphis. So as we were talking about how the matches were basically the same this time. He was supposed to lose to me up in the night. And he took the. Down in Memphis. He walked, and he had 10 fans there. And one of them, one fan whacked him. He didn't even flinch. He didn't sell it. Yeah, everybody else was giving him the girls, and some of the other guys were just giving a little whack with it, you know, like, you're playing around with your wife or your, you know, best buddy. You don't want to kill them now. And I was like, wow, that one dude, Bubba, even went, damn. He didn't even sell that. I go, man, they're gonna beat the hell out of me when they get the strappy. Which I never got it. So, you know. [00:56:58] Speaker B: Yeah, Memphis was straps and Give the fan straps, matches and all that kind of stuff, which is scary. [00:57:07] Speaker A: Thought, I guess it was some people's belts, I guess. Hey, you got a belt. Come on back. [00:57:12] Speaker B: You're in, you're in. We'll pick you a couple other names. Rocky Johnson. You worked with him some there in Memphis. How was Rocky? [00:57:23] Speaker A: Rocky was good. [00:57:24] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:57:24] Speaker A: He was, I guess, getting near the end of his career. He didn't really want to do too much, I'll say that much. Yeah, you know, a lot of the matches I was winning with him, he choked me in a corner. Choked me in a corner. I'm thinking, man, you know, come on, you know, we're. This is you and Soul Train, you know, supposedly you know, you're the champs now, you know, make us look bad, you know, But I. And then Randy Hills come up to me to one match, and he goes, what the hell's that? What did you call that? I go, hey, he told me to choke him in the corner. I didn't, you know, I said, let's go. I'll throw you another corner and splash it. No, no, stay here. Just keep choking me so, you know, it takes two. You know, it ain't my. I can't put the blame on me, Randy. That's what I told him. Don't blame me for that, because I do anything you want me to do in that ring, you know. But Rocky was a great guy in the locker room, some good stories. And then I got to meet the Rock when he was 15. [00:58:19] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:58:19] Speaker A: Sign a letter of intent. That night he come up to me, he said he was going to be a linebacker. I. I couldn't say. I bet you he didn't weigh more than 150 or 170. He was, you know, skinny little kid. Really? [00:58:33] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:58:33] Speaker A: And linebacker. You mean cornerback, you know. And Rocky goes and gives me a nice hard shot. What are you talking about my son for? And I never got to meet the Rock after that, dude. I never got this. When he got into business, I was done with it. I was working. [00:58:49] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:58:50] Speaker A: As a bouncer and everything else. [00:58:51] Speaker B: So, you know, who would have thought that skinny kid would go on to be one of the biggest, not just wrestling stars, but stars in general. [00:59:01] Speaker A: I mean, he. He had the background. He had a lot of wrestling talent, that's for sure. [00:59:05] Speaker B: Yeah. So, you know, we've. We've just talked about. You broke your leg. He was out of the business for a while. You come back. We talked about it last time pretty thoroughly. Moondog Splat with, you know, Richard Lee, and we talked about some of the issues of the spot along the way. In 91:1, as. As Goliath you went to on a tour of Japan, teamed with the Warlord, the Barbarian, Chris Adams, Tito Santana, worked with some pretty big names in Japanese wrestling over there. [00:59:35] Speaker A: How was that whole experience was on there. Yeah, Me and. What's his name? You just said his name. Chris Adams. Me and him tagged together over in Japan and me and the Barbarian and then the Warlord. That was my three tag team. And then my other two matches were with the champ. They were grooming to be the champ of this league over there, you know, sws. [01:00:03] Speaker B: You know, coming from Memphis, how different was the style over there? Did you enjoy that? That Style better than the Southern wrestling style or indifferent? [01:00:14] Speaker A: Yeah, I don't think it was that much, you know, I know that the crowd was different. The crowd just sat there. You could. You could do a high spot from the ceiling, and if you fell to the ground, they all. It wouldn't get up for it. Only before that, if you did that. Yeah, clap. They clap like they were at a movie, you know. And I was always like, any restaurant out there, because I was in the back of the locker room. I opened the door, I thought, this match has started. And I'd open the door. Oh, here they are, you know, Said, man, these people are quiet because, yeah, they don't get up until you guys fall out of the ring or something like that. That's the only time they stand up is if you get outside the ring, you know. Yeah. [01:00:51] Speaker B: You hear that polite applause and then something big happens. You'll hear me. Oh, you know, collective. [01:00:58] Speaker A: Oh, the whole crowd. Yeah, it goes and it goes in unity. But as a Moondog, it was great to go over there because, you know, we could chase the people. You come out and start walking to them. They would take off running. And people leave their kids, their. Their purses in the aisleways. You know, I'm like, hey, you should have grabbed your kid. I can see you leaving your purse, but your kid, you know, but it was a lot of fun. I had some fun over there, make some good money. I was hoping that I would call back for that, you know, after 91, but I never got called back. The big. Something big happened. Guy exposed the business, that guy they were grooming, and he was supposed to go against or something like that. Yeah, I forget his name, but he. He was a rival against Earthquake when he. When Earthquake was a sumo wrestler. They rivaled each other a little bit, I guess. I. I don't know if they ever. I don't know if he just didn't like them or. You know, After Earthquake got going, they had a. They had, I guess, a problem between each other, you know, and. [01:01:59] Speaker B: Yeah, I think that's what I heard was exactly what you said. They were legit rivals in sumo, and he didn't like the way the professional match was booked in Tinta's favor. So he cut that promo on the mic and exposed the whole business. And he's like, what are you doing, dude? [01:02:16] Speaker A: Well, that happened with Doug Gilbert and Eddie. They were jerking us around as the Moondogs, me and Spike, and I didn't really. I'm thinking then when I got most of the story you know, the rest of the story. Then I realized, yeah, they are, you know, I guess we do have to leave, you know. [01:02:36] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:02:37] Speaker A: Because it ain't worth staying here because they're bringing in this other thing here and they're. They're making us lose every match, you know, so. Yeah, so Doug and Eddie exposed over there, too. So they took off the mass in the ring. Yeah. Hug each other. I remember laughing in logo about it. But then we were gone the next day we had our flight and we were. [01:02:59] Speaker B: Yeah, you don't come back from that. [01:03:03] Speaker A: You don't go out there and take. [01:03:04] Speaker B: Your mask off and expose everything and flip the cameras off and come back the next night. [01:03:07] Speaker A: So, yeah, and we were supposed to go back to Memphis, but then, you know, Bill called, you know, Spike called them, and they said that, you know, their guarantee was lower than before. I said, well, I ain't going back for that guarantee. Nah, there's got to be something better than that, you know? [01:03:24] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, times were. Times were tough around that time in Memphis. [01:03:29] Speaker A: Yeah, it was. It was really falling off. Yeah. [01:03:32] Speaker B: And, you know, we review some of those shows on my other podcast, and you see guys come in and they're there for a couple weeks and then they're gone. And, like, the other guys doing the podcast, like, why did they just come in for a couple weeks? I'm like, they went, they made the loop. They got that first paycheck, and they're like, hell, no, we're not doing this. [01:03:48] Speaker A: You know, and you've seen a lot of the guys when they got their paycheck. Some of the guys have been around for a while, see their faces turn. I'm like, I know you're making more than me, brother. Don't make a face at your check compared to mine, you know, But I, you know, I guess they. They shorted them or whatever, you know, that happened a lot in the Indies, you know, I'll give you a 200. And then all of a sudden, at the end of the matches, you go in and collect your pay, you know, to give you 150. I'll give you 50 the next time I see you, I'll add it on because you're wrestling next month. Did I get the other 50? Yeah, eventually. Three months later, you know, but, you know, I. I wasn't going to go back down there for that type of guarantee, you know, it was. It was well under what I was used to getting. [01:04:33] Speaker B: Yeah, I don't blame you because it's like, you know, it's not like you're just, it's not like you're just doing, you know, the Mid South Coliseum and that's it you're making and all those towns. And, you know, it's. [01:04:46] Speaker A: I mean, some of the figures I've. [01:04:48] Speaker B: Heard people say, I'm like, how the hell did you even afford to make the trips with that kind of money? [01:04:53] Speaker A: Way more money back in Pittsburgh. That was another reason I said, heck would, I mean, with my job as a bouncer manager of a, you know, the bar and nightclubs. And I made way more. I went, I wanted to make way more too, in the wwf, but it never happened. So that's another reason why I said, hey, I'm not doing it for that type of money. I said, I can go back and stand at the door and I have the belt every night. Nobody takes it from me. Except for maybe one of my other guys I was bouncing with. [01:05:26] Speaker B: Right, right. [01:05:27] Speaker A: I, we had a couple guys. One guy was the, you know, power lifter. He mentioned £600 and stuff like that. And I went to the gym with him a lot and he worked as a bouncer with me. So. [01:05:39] Speaker B: You know, you had some of those guys that were local to Memphis that had good, you know, like King Cobra and guys like Jerry Bryant who had like FedEx jobs and stuff, and they would just come do Monday night, come do the TV on Saturday. But they had a job where they made good money and they weren't having to, you know, do the road and everything. I see how those guys could do it. But, yeah, if you could make more money in Pittsburgh as a bouncer, why are you gonna go there and take all that abuse to your body? [01:06:04] Speaker A: You know, I also bartended, so, you know, I can make some money on it, you know, stuff like that. But, you know, just the, the bouncing alone was more than what I'd make a week on there. But yeah, I was always with the hope, you know, Vince is going to call me, you know, or WCW is going to want somebody, you know, and it never materialized. [01:06:26] Speaker B: So in 92, you did a dark match in Cincinnati. WB, WFTV tape and work. Tito Santana. How did that come together and, and how did that go? [01:06:39] Speaker A: Well, I mean, Tito wasn't happy about it because I don't think he wanted to do the dark match. I don't think I said, tito, you don't want to go in the ring. We work together, you know, over in Japan, you know, and not that. And he goes and walked away and I guess he tried to get off of it, but Then he. The next day was the biggest problem. I don't think he had a problem with the first match, but the next night and was it Lexington? I think it was Lexington, yeah. He was on the card again to wrestle me again, which I thought if I had to wrestle him again the next night, you know, the next day, that I wouldn't make it. That that's your sign that, you know, if you wrestled, you know, a non jobber, we'll put it, you're not gonna make it. But the next day I wrestled Chamberlain, the guy from Pete Cleveland. And I thought I was going to get in. Next thing you know, I was getting paid and bye, you know, So I don't know what happened. I. I don't know what transpired because Vince walked up to me after my match, handed me my stuff, great match. And I'm like, I didn't think it was that. I said it was. I didn't think it was great. It was good, you know, because it was against Tito, you know. Yeah. And then it seemed like everything changed after I seen him at the gym the next day. He's. How much, you know, what do you do? How much do you, you know, work out? And I said, I work out every day, but I said, I work a lot of hours. I said, you know, before I came here, I was a bouncer, worked, you know, 16 hours a day sometimes, you know. But Vince, it just seemed like I went up to say thank you and he just dissed me off. Just, well, thank you, thank you for coming. I'm like, I went to talk again, he interrupted me again. I'm like, dude, I don't, you know, I'm just trying to get a job, man. You know, I think you can come up with a gimmick. Yeah. [01:08:37] Speaker B: You know, it seemed to me like a couple of years earlier than that at least, you know, you would have been just a perfect opponent for Hogan, you know, one of the. Right up his alley of all the one man gangs and, you know, all the different big men. Even if you just came in and, you know, like Kamala and just had a run with him around through all the towns, you'd have banked a pile of money off of that, you know? [01:09:00] Speaker A: Yeah, Jimmy, Jimmy Hart tried to get me in, you know, he. He talked to me. He kept looking at me in the locker room up near Pittsburgh, and I'm like, what the heck are you looking at? And all of a sudden he goes, hey, man, you know, I think we could do something with you, with. Hogan would love you you know, I'm like, I wish Hogan would love me, you know, but, you know, never happened. I called after that tryout in Cincinnati and Lexington. I called Jimmy back and it was like, who are you? Well, and I go, yeah, explain. Oh, well, the Knights of the Round Table don't know what's going. You know, they're still making decisions. And when I called back the next time, he didn't get on the line. So I just said, you know, yeah, that's probably what could have been. Right? Yeah. That's when I did the Moondog thing. [01:09:54] Speaker B: Yeah. One other match. [01:09:57] Speaker A: I was gonna sneak in a back door, you know, I think. [01:09:59] Speaker B: Yeah. Because they were. Yeah, because they had their eyes on it. You know, they were sending, like you said, Savage and Kurt Henning and all these guys were coming down and, you know, man on a mission got signed out of there. So, yeah, it was definitely a possibility. [01:10:14] Speaker A: You know, I. As I talked to Fred, you know, Big Bubba, you know, that was one of the big things that helped him was Hulk Hogan. It could have been that him and Dusty Rose were brother in laws at one time. But Hogan really, he told the story like, you know, they come up to him and said, hey, you're going to be a sailor man. So he goes, what do you want me to be between Brutus and Popeye? Yeah. Which I thought was a funny thing for him to say. I looked at Bubble. Yeah. You were like, Brutus and Popeye. He was a strong dude, Bubba probably still a strong dude. Yeah. [01:10:49] Speaker B: I remember saying that as a kid. Like, he looks just like Brutus, but he's doing Popeye's gimmick. Like, it's perfect crossover there. Well, man, that's weight. Yeah, he's like. I said, he was up there and I thought, man, Goliath won't be far behind. [01:11:05] Speaker A: And I was training with him and he. He was doing almost 900 pounds on the squat. And I mean, a full squad benching over five. I mean, he was strong at everything he did. I was. He'd go, come on, you know, I'm like, come on, man, you think I'm gonna lift up ten plates, brother? Forget it, Brad. I. I'm stuck at six. You want me to go ten? I can't go from six to ten. You're crazy. But I mean, he kept me going. I will say that about Bubba. [01:11:33] Speaker B: I was lucky enough to meet Fred a couple times, and just one of the nicest people you'll ever meet. I was really proud for him going in the, you know, the WWE hall of fame last year. And is this one of the people that you're happy for? Like, you know, he. He really deserves it. You know, it means something to me. Some of the guys get up there and it's just, you know, they're night payday or whatever. But, you know, he was. [01:11:54] Speaker A: When we rode together. Yeah, when we rode together was. It was great because he. I was a rock and roller, you know, metal kind of guy. And he was old. What's that, what they call that? Motown? Oh, he was in the Moton, you know, and he had a couple tastes with Gladys Knight, the Supremes and, and the. I can't think of half the other names now, but he had every tape from the. From Motown in his. In his car. We'd sit there and he'd get into it, start singing. And we're going around. I'm looking at him like, what the heck? You really like your song, huh? But then I started catching. I started liking it too. [01:12:35] Speaker B: So, you know, wow, that is a fun image. You guys rolling around listening to Motown. [01:12:43] Speaker A: He had that Jeep. We. We had a couple trips with that Jeep and it was only two seater, and then they had like a truck bed. [01:12:50] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:12:51] Speaker A: And we were riding somebody home that one. I said, I'll. I'll sit in the back. I've done this before. I said, just give me your coat. Give me your coat. And I can go back here with my coat on. I'll be warm. I'll sit right next to the window here. I'll just open a crack here. So a little bit of heat comes out. Yeah. I don't know how many miles we drove that night, but I stayed in the back the whole way. So that's. [01:13:13] Speaker B: That's rough. [01:13:15] Speaker A: His Jeep was rough. That thing was like riding like over potholes that were three foot deep. Every bump you hit, and I could hit your head off the ceiling. And my knees were in the dashboard. So was his. You know, it was just a real tight. I go, why would you buy this? You know? [01:13:33] Speaker B: Yeah, that's what you said earlier, the Jeep. I thought you two guys in a Jeep. Oh my God, like, it's having to be miserable. [01:13:40] Speaker A: Yeah, it was like a scrambler. [01:13:44] Speaker B: Yeah, that's what the ones with the. [01:13:45] Speaker A: Bed was, you know, and it was a stick. So. No, I already knew how to drive a stick. So we, we definitely change, you know, driving times. And most of. I said, act with it after a while. I said, I'll drive all the time, brother. I said, you know, he. He just start falling asleep instantly as we got on the road, he. I looked over one time, his head was dying. I'm like. I said I wanted to drive, but I said, I'll get some sleep on the way down. And I had the steering wheel in my hand so it wouldn't. He wouldn't jerk it. What are you doing? I go, what are you doing? Because I felt the car. [01:14:30] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:14:31] Speaker A: Moving to the left. I thought, man, the way it was looking, we were heading right for this bridge, embankment. [01:14:35] Speaker B: Oh, my God. [01:14:36] Speaker A: And we were still good, you know, a thousand feet away from it. That's why. Come on, dude. I don't want to die that way. But we always had a great time traveling, so there's always something funny that happened, you know, getting a speeding ticket or something stupid, you know, it was always something. [01:14:56] Speaker B: Well, man, I appreciate your time. It's been great talking to you and want to remind everybody you can come and meet and hang out with Goliath. [01:15:04] Speaker A: Moondog Splat. [01:15:06] Speaker B: Bubba white at the KFAB Cave. It's 110 South 1st Street, Pulaski, Tennessee, Saturday, August 23rd from noon to 3pm Go ahead. Don't wait till you get there. Go ahead now. Pre order your meet and greets, your pictures. That way, if the one you want isn't sold out, go ahead and get it done. [01:15:23] Speaker A: It'd be great to be back in Pulaski, that's for sure, man. [01:15:27] Speaker B: Yeah, we're all looking forward to it and we will see you then, my friend. [01:15:32] Speaker A: All right, Gene, take care. [01:15:34] Speaker B: All right, buddy, safe travels down there. We'll see you soon. [01:15:36] Speaker A: All right. All right, bye. Listen up, you bunch of slack jaw flea market freeloaders. If you think you know Memphis wrestling, you don't know nothing till you've heard the Retro Wrestling Review podcast, brother. Every week they're talking the real stuff. Lawler Jarrett, PG 13. Yeah, and even my moondogs. Watch long stories from road interviews and folks who are in the thick of it. Brother, the blood, the beer and the bell money. It's all on the Rastle Copia Podcast network. Go to uswapodcast.com or I'll come down there and I'll slap a taste out of your mouth. Shining big and bright. And you might run into a moondog and meet your finger. But you got a beautiful body slam. I think you put this in my slam. You shake my love with just attention. You throw me for a body. Take me to the limit if you can. You want a boy? I'm looking for a man.