Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Hey, we're live from SDS studios in Jonesboro, Arkansas. I'm Brian Trammell and I got my co host for. Was it really that Good? Gene Jackson, how the hell are you doing?
[00:00:12] Speaker B: Great, Brian. How about yourself?
[00:00:13] Speaker A: Oh, man, I think me and you should be celebrating, man. The Bob Armstrong episode exploded. And I hate to say this, I guess it's because Bob died on us and. And we did it as a tribute to him. You know how it is. They sell more records when someone dies. It seems like we. We got more downloads. Were the number five most downloaded episode of the year. And that's the most downloaded episode I believe of. Was it really that good?
[00:00:41] Speaker B: That's awesome, man. I'm glad to hear it. You know, like we said in the episode, Bob Armstrong is a great wrestler and a great guy. And so I'm glad to hear that people feel the same. And God knows I'm hoping I'll finally be over once I die, because it ain't happening now.
[00:00:57] Speaker A: Yeah, no, that's. They're just going to worry about my family. Worry about what? You know, what can they get in the house that I own. So all my computer equipment, everything.
[00:01:09] Speaker B: My.
[00:01:09] Speaker A: One of my friends told me a story that his grandmother's house, she died. And then everybody went into the house to get paintings and stuff. And then they looked on the back of the paintings and. And all the kids had already put their names on with masking tape.
[00:01:23] Speaker B: Oh, my God.
[00:01:25] Speaker A: So I figured I could put masking tape if I knew I was dying, you know, on the things that I want people to have. So there you go. Hey, we're gonna do this is the month of Morton. It's Rocktober. Always wanted to say that.
And so we are doing the month of morning. We had Ricky Morton on. We've had some students from the school. We had a trainer we're all excited about. So I thought we would just do an extra episode for the month and do a deep dive of Ricky Morton. We probably already know the answer to this one, as we probably knew the answer when we started Bob Armstrong.
But I picked three videos. You picked three videos. We're gonna have my three first. We'll go to commercial break and then have your three. And we're just gonna sit here and talk about Ricky Morton.
[00:02:07] Speaker B: Sounds good. Although with that name, I feel like I should put on a really phony DJ voice like, hey, we're back here with Rocktober. The month of Morton.
[00:02:15] Speaker A: I was waiting for all the buzz, you know, what they do, like ringing the Bells in the background. And I. I need a DJ name for you. So. Slick Jean or something like that. Oh, Slick Jean there started with the. This was a bootleg, I guess, a bootleg copy of the Midnight Express against the Rock and Roll Express in Philly at the Civic Center.
Had you seen this before?
[00:02:40] Speaker B: I had not, which was impressive because I thought I had seen most Rock and Roll Express Midnight Express matches that were out there, especially on YouTube. But it was one I hadn't seen, so I was pretty psyched about that.
[00:02:52] Speaker A: Well, the thing about it is, I didn't even know it was a title change. Here I am watching it. I didn't even look at the title of the video.
Conjuring Eaton. Ricky Morton had talked about how good conjuring was and. And I agreed. Conjuring were really good. Tag team Stan. Stan had a lot more charisma than. Than conjured eating combined. But Kadri, just a solid worker. That place was loud, weren't they? They were packed and it was loud.
[00:03:18] Speaker B: And you know, you hear these shoot interviews and radio interviews and everything with these guys, and they talk about how especially, you know, Ricky, you know, how over they were then and how the, you know, the girls went wild and all that. But, man, all the footage that's out there backs it up because they. I mean, they did. They. They were losing their mind out there. So, I mean, there's. There's no question. They.
They were over like crazy.
[00:03:40] Speaker A: Oh, it was nuts. In. In the. If you listen real good when the Midnight Express come out, they were big baby faces and they get cheered there front. And then when.
Then when rock and roll comes out, it's like, okay, we had some heel fans there, but, man, they are drowned out. The place goes nuts.
Long, long shine for the baby faces in that first fall. This is two out of three falls. Did you know? It sounds like. Are we ever going to start the heat? Is what I thought.
[00:04:10] Speaker B: Yeah, it took a while to get there, but.
[00:04:13] Speaker A: And then, wow. Surprise, surprise, guess who the heat is on. Ricky Morton. We start the heat.
Gibson even had hurt ribs. He was selling that there at the beginning. We get a hot tag and I actually love this hot tag because it was out of nowhere. It was boom, boom, boom. And then roll up and Robert pinned.
Was it conjuring? He pinned Conjuring.
[00:04:34] Speaker B: Yeah, conjuring.
[00:04:36] Speaker A: And it was quick, too. And then.
And then they. They did the opposite. They did another quick fall with Kandre actually doing the back breaker because the ribs were hurt.
[00:04:46] Speaker C: And.
[00:04:46] Speaker A: And they did the real quick concrete Pins Robert.
Then we start on heat again. Boom, boom, boom. And they ended up winning that drop kick, but he messed up on that missile drop kick. He almost hurt himself. Look, like, how many.
[00:05:01] Speaker B: I wish I'd have known you were going to have Ricky on the countdown, because I would, I would love to hear him venture a guess at how many times over the years they've wrestled. The Rock and Roll Express and Midnight Express have wrestled. It's got to be in the hundreds at least, if not close to a thousand or more.
[00:05:18] Speaker A: I don't know. You know, I'm going to talk about the second time he talked about. He wrestled Ric Flair 17 days straight. So I don't know what the hell. There's no telling how many times those guys especially, like different variations of them, you know, he puts over. Oh, yeah, you know, Midnight Express is my favorite tag team. That's nobody's surprise. And he puts them over all the variations. You know, conjure was good. Lane was really good, you know, so forth and so on. But, yeah, they win the titles, which I, I, I was surprised because I thought the side. What's the deal with tag team? So if you, if the heels win the first ball, the baby faces can win the next two balls, but the heels can't win the next two balls. Right. So the baby face won first and then conjuring them one. And I said, I think the heels are going to take the last two walls and then, boom, they win the bells, place goes nuts. And Corny talks about all the silly that people do. How about him throwing the pit at the end? You talk about silly. That was silly.
[00:06:22] Speaker B: Yes, he, bless his heart, yeah, he's, he's a walking contradiction at times, but that's a whole nother episode.
[00:06:32] Speaker A: I loved it. Hey, maybe, maybe we think it wasn't really that good when it comes to Cornet.
It was really just one of those things that just stood out to me. I loved it. I mean, the heel throws the fit. I threw a fit like that one time in thumbtacks.
So I got mad and started stomping and stomped and, you know, it didn't hurt my feet.
But the fans loved it. They thought it did. So rock and roll. Get the out of there. And they are the champions.
I really like that match and I like listening to the crowd. I mean, like you said, it's almost like that they're backing up everything they say about how noisy that crowd was.
[00:07:12] Speaker B: Absolutely.
[00:07:13] Speaker A: They had some guy comment on that video that said his ears hurt. He was there that night. So his Ears heard after, after leaving. So.
[00:07:22] Speaker B: Wow.
[00:07:23] Speaker A: Next was.
What do we got here? Next was Ric Flair. That was the interview. Ric Flair gives Ricky Morton a brawl.
And Rick says, I like the big girls, but you like little girls. That's kind of what he said.
They ended up punching him and they brawl all in the ring. We do the flare flip and all that good stuff.
So what was your thoughts and how, how big over was this Ricky Morton, Ric Flair feud to you?
[00:07:51] Speaker B: I don't. It was kind of a testament to just how over Ricky was. I mean, I know the Rock and Roll Express collectively were over, but I figured this was probably just thought of when they had. The concept of. It is okay. This is just a little. A side angle for Flair for tv, you know, to, you know, keep things busy until his next big, big match, you know, coming up. But, man, I mean, Morton Morton was as over as any babyface, you know, that Flair went against, you know, including Dusty and, you know, later on Sting and guys like that. Now, I don't know, like I've heard it said in a shoot interview in the last few years that Ricky claims they came to him and offered him the world title. And he said no because he didn't want to leave Robert behind.
Even Cornet, as much of a defender of them, has kind of come out and said, I don't know if that's, you know, exactly true, but I don't know that I could see Ricky morton as the NWA world champion in 1986. But I'm sure they packed their more than their fair share of houses and they certainly had some excellent matches. And some of these exchanges, like this promo here was close, classic.
[00:09:01] Speaker A: Yeah, they, he said they started out, you know, the tapes would go, the tapes would go to different arenas. You know how that worked out. The listeners probably know how our different TV shows and they, they, they, they might go to one place this week. Say they're in Memphis this week, but you don't see that tape to the next week in Louisville. That's kind of what they did, the way the tapes worked. And he said they worked 17 straight days. And that was twice on Saturday and twice on Sunday. And then also did the TBS Saturday morning tapings during the first 17 days of the run here.
And he said they did Broadway's. And I watched, I watched a couple matches. I think the shorter matches there is a short match from that come from a Japanese TV show that's about 18 or 20 minutes. I always remember the long matches being better and it might just be my taste now but the long matches have a lot of rest toads in them. A lot of rest toads, a lot of heat which, you know, Ricky talked about it on the show that he, you know, he just, that's all he did was take heat. So Flair's just beating the fuck out of him for 40 minutes. But, but you know, total different era. And I understand the matches were done differently, but here's what I thought during this time as a fan is that this goes back to the old Babyface chasing the heel for the belt. It's like I wanted him to win and I sat at the edge of my seat thinking he was going to win. But in the back of my mind I probably knew he wasn't going to be put, put over for the world belt. But I don't think a lot of fans thought of it that way. I thought they thought of it the way I did. There's a chance, there's a chance. It's just, you know, this young guy, Rock and Roll Express guy who was over as a tag team wrestler, there's a chance he's going to win the world belt.
[00:10:54] Speaker B: Oh yeah, because fans didn't look at it as cynically as we do now looking back, knowing what we know about wrestling, you know, they weren't gonna put half of a tag team over for the world title.
But you know, you gotta think, have, you know, Ricky saying that, you gotta figure those matches were probably a nice change of pace for Flair because most world title matches were Flair. For Flair was him selling for 50 something minutes, you know, getting bounced around by Luger and Dusty and folks a lot of the time and then, you know, squeaking it out at the end or going to the, you know, going Broadway. But to whip Morton's ass for the majority of it, you know, is probably a little bit of, a little bit of a change up. And by the way, for the younger fans listening, when you hear Going Broadway, if you don't know that doesn't mean Flair and Morton did a fucking dance number like aew, so never fear, let's.
[00:11:44] Speaker A: Don'T talk about that.
Yeah, I just think, I think the whole thing with Ricky in, in that was one of the things too with them not really getting set with good heels where they have to chase the belt. And I think that's what worked with him. Rick. The thing with Flair too is that he didn't have a problem. And this happened on TV a couple times where Ricky just like Steamboat, I mean, just like we seen Bob Armstrong last month with peeing Ricky would pin Ric Flair, so that even made you think he was gonna win.
So my third match, my third video that I sent in to for this show was the New Jack against Morton, which was a very short match, but I did not remember them actually feuding with the gangsters, but went back and watched a little bit more stuff there in Smoky Mountain. I think it was the gangsters or the Rock and Rolls. First match, the rock and Roll went over the gangsters and then the gangsters beat the fuck out of them after that. The match.
[00:12:45] Speaker B: Yeah, they had quite a. Quite a little feud there. And a lot of the interviews I've heard with New Jack over the years, he gives Ricky Morton and Robert Gibson a lot of credit for, you know, teaching the gangsters how to work, and especially in front of the Southern crowds and the psychology behind it. Not that they went on to use a lot of it or any psychology once they went on to ECW and beyond, but, you know, he's always had good things to say about the Rock and Roll Express and, you know, really with the heat they came in with and the kind of, you know, stuff they were talking on tv, who better for them to, you know, feud with out of the gate than the Rock and Roll Express?
[00:13:23] Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, you got. You got the white baby faces in, you know, big time white baby faces. Even though this was like, what we would say, middle of their career, I bet people wrote back then that this was going to be the end of their career.
[00:13:37] Speaker B: But, yeah, we. We thought they were in the twilight of the rock and roll era. And who. Who knew that they would still be winning titles in 2019.
[00:13:45] Speaker A: And you know what? Cornettes with Smoky Mountain, I really honestly think he used him perfect. I mean, they were perfectly used there.
And I could say that about a lot of the stuff that he did with Smokey Mountain, the book, he made a lot of sense there.
You know, some stuff was shitty, but. But that. That made a lot of sense. And Morton and Gibson both were still over at that time. So especially in that being in the south, they. They are really over. So. Still over now. So I bet they, you know, I bet Ricky could help draw a little small. A bigger crowd in these small towns in this area, even today. So you think.
[00:14:21] Speaker B: You think the mummy was booked? Perfectly.
[00:14:23] Speaker A: Perfectly booked.
You know, he's. Cornet's never done anything like that. Nothing stupid.
[00:14:29] Speaker B: So I just know. I mean, I'm kind of on the fence. I agree with Cornett as much as I agree with the other side.
As wrestling goes, a lot of the time. But every time he starts talking about them, quote, doing stupid on nonsensical stuff that you can't believe is a sportsman. Like, on. Aw, I think you booked a mummy, man. Sit down.
[00:14:50] Speaker A: He has. Yeah, he has an excuse for that every time. And then, you know, just. He doesn't say anything because, you know, that guy wanted to do it. Blah, blah, blah. I just, you know, it's one of those things where.
Yeah, I'll book some stupid shit, too. So everybody books stupid shit. And sometimes it goes over. And sometimes it goes over like a fart in church. So there you go. And that was horrible. The mummy was horrible. All right, guys, we'll take a quick commercial break, and we'll be right back with the three videos that Slick Gene came up with here on Rocktober.
Hey, before we get to commercials, I'm gonna stop it right here. This. This is the month of Morton. Rocktober. That's right, guys. And before we go to commercials, you're set here right in the middle of. Was it really that good? I have on the phone. He. He's a busy man, so I had to catch him while he's driving through Memphis right now.
I wanted to add this story. You messaged me or text me while we were talking. It's Dustin Star, by the way. Dustin five Star.
You text me during this, during the month of Morton, and you was like, cool. This. This sounds like a great show you're gonna have with Ricky. It's something different. There's no sense in, you know, just doing the same old, same old. You said, man, I got a great Ricky Morton story. And I'm like, well, I don't want to do a whole show. Let's just get you on right in us back in the middle. And you're going to tell us a story about Ricky Morton's story.
[00:16:21] Speaker C: Well, gosh, I don't know if it's a great story.
It is definitely a story that I'll never forget because it involves the night that Moondog spot passed away in the ring at Mid South Coliseum. And it was at Jerry Lawler's birthday event. I'll never, ever forget it. It was a big concession stand battle royal where you can bring any weapons that you want. It was basically made for the Moondog so they could beat the hell out of you with whatever they brought to the ring.
[00:16:50] Speaker A: Right, right, right, right. And Ricky actually. Men, he said, you. You know, I was in the ring when. Because we went over the top 10 tag teams, my favorite teams. And, you know, the Moon dogs had to be in there. And I said, yeah, I knew it, but I knew you. It was a story coming to from you.
[00:17:06] Speaker C: And I don't even know if Ricky remembers it quite like I do, just because I was so much younger and, you know, working in the ring with the Moondogs and the Rock and Roll Express and all these great tag teams, to me was just a moment, you know, a bucket list moment, you know, especially wrestling inside Mid South Coliseum.
But I remember Larry Moondog Spot. We had become friends. He was kind of like a Santa Claus sitting in the back in the locker room. And I know that sounds funny. Mean Moondog, right? It was the.
Just the softest, like a teddy bear, you know, he was always drinking coffee and he would smile at you or whatever, and you knew that little. That little grin, something was about to happen or whatnot. But anyways, in the. In the ring this night, I remember him hitting me flat on the back with a frying pan.
And it hurt worse than a chop. It hurt so bad, I got away from him, like, get me out of here.
And so anyway, we're all wrestling around. Boom, bam, boom, you know, kicking and punching, because it's about a royal. I remember going over to Larry. He was sitting in the corner, and I was just stomping on him and punching him, and he wasn't even registering. It was like, no selling.
So I'm like, forget about this. So I walked away. Let me go somewhere else. And all of a sudden, Ricky Morton. And this is why I remember it so vividly, you know, growing up a Morton fan. Ricky Morton comes to me, he gives me a punch, he says, we gotta go. Something's wrong with Larry.
And I. Oh, wow. I mean, what am I.
I don't even know what was going through my head. I look over the ring, across the ring, and I see Larry squatted down in a seated position the same way that I had just seen him. But he was kind of turning different colors, like a blue color in his face.
And I thought, oh, my gosh, what is going on? So literally, me and Ricky launched ourselves over the top rope. So everybody basically cleared the ring.
And the paramedics came out with the stretcher and the gurney.
They did a little work on him.
So we're kind of going back up the aisle way, and I'm just thinking, you know, through my head, it's as vivid as it was yesterday of the fans, the guardrails, and then just looking back at Larry laying in the ring, just thinking, oh, gosh, what's what's happened?
And after a couple of minutes of working on him in the ring, you. I noticed his son was real young at the time. You know, my son is 12. I can only imagine he might have been a little bit younger than that, but he was watching the whole thing, very upset about it.
And then they wheel they will Larry in the stretcher to the locker room area, and they push the little button for the gate to come down.
And one of the last visions that I saw was the gate coming down with his son standing at the stretcher crying, and just everybody frantically trying to get Larry revived.
And that's, I think, the last shot because, you know, Mid South Coliseum has those big garage door.
[00:20:01] Speaker B: Right, right, right.
[00:20:02] Speaker C: I don't even proper name, but it was coming down, boom. And then that would. That's what kind of hit us, hit everybody from the audience.
But yeah, man, it was surreal. And it was just so quiet backstage, like nobody knew what was going on. And then finally, before we left that night, we did get word that he had passed away, and we all were just shocked.
And.
And if we're to be Lawler's birthday, you know, one of the most legendary tag teams in the history of Memphis wrestling, I happened to be in that match. It was just all way too much, man. I'll never.
[00:20:42] Speaker A: I mean, here you are, like you said, with the Legends kind of get, you know, and. And we've all had those moments. I've worked with some of the. Like, I remember the first time working with Bobby Eaton and getting kind of goosebumps and Mark. Yeah. Well, I'm in standing in the ring, and it's.
You get that.
And just being. And you. It's. It's a strange dipper story. You said, hey, I got a Ricky Morton story.
Totally different.
And I didn't have a lot to. A lot of dealings with Larry. I've told my Moondog story and it's on our YouTube thing. But I had to bring you on just to add this as part of the month of Morton. I got a weird question. As you're. As you're saying this all I'm thinking, so what was the. What was the original finish of the battle roll? Do you know? And then what, y' all just had to throw yourselves out? What. What was the original finish?
[00:21:38] Speaker C: Oh, I'm 99.9% sure that the finish was the Moondogs. Anyway, who's gonna throw them over the top row, first of all? And second of all, it. That match was literally based on concession stand Battle royal. Yeah. So no doubt in my mind they were originally supposed to go over, but when something like that happens for real in the ring and you know that somebody is, you know, gosh, he was literally out. I don't even know how he was sitting up straight.
I mean, I think I just jumped over the top rope. I don't even think. I don't even think Ricky Morton helped me. I think we both just jumped over the top rope to get the heck out of there. That's how serious it was at the time.
You know, I know there's a lot of times where we finish the match and all that kind of stuff, but this thing was literally, boom, done.
[00:22:22] Speaker A: When.
[00:22:22] Speaker C: When Ricky Morton comes to me and says, something's wrong with Larry, we gotta go. I don't even think we thought twice about it. We just went. Because it was such a.
I mean, it was. I.
I can't even really explain it. It was just. Oh, no, right, right.
[00:22:40] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:22:41] Speaker C: That's your buddy, you know, and that's your friend too. Like, we had, we had worked together in Missouri and all sorts of different places and got to know each other behind the scenes. Actually, my punishment, one of the first times I was in the ring with Moondog Spot was because I was being punished for probably being a little smart ass or something.
[00:22:59] Speaker A: No, not you. Not you.
[00:23:00] Speaker D: Yeah.
[00:23:00] Speaker C: And anyway, he liked me, so he took it easy on me. But we ended up defending the Southern tag team titles, me and Simon or me and Kevin White against, against Rock and Roll several times. So we had known each other and had worked together and all that kind of stuff. So we were all friends at this point.
But when he came over and said that, game over, man. And one of the things I'll never forget about it is seeing Moondog's son.
[00:23:23] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:23:24] Speaker C: You know, that whole, whole situation.
[00:23:26] Speaker A: I can't remember the kid's name, but I. He was part of an angle that Moondog wanted us to do with him and I didn't want to. So we told that story. Hey, man, Dustin, I appreciate you stopping in telling us that story. Just as I said, just a. I don't know, it's kind of a morbid story.
Yeah, it's one of those things.
Yeah, yeah, it is one of those things where you, you was part of wrestling history, not a part that you wanted to be part of, but there is not, you know, of. Think about this. The history of professional wrestling. We have not had that many deaths in the ring. We've had deaths in the ring, but not that many. And he was part of one of them which and Ricky Morton also. So remember guys, it's the month of Morton. So Dustin, thanks for dropping by. We're going to do commercials and then right back in the studio with my old buddy Gene. Jack. Hey, back from commercials. Want to thank our sponsors and we're going to go with Gene. Gene. The first match I watched that you sent along was rock and roll against the Russians.
[00:24:30] Speaker B: Yes.
So the rock and roll against the Russians to me felt like something that needed to be included because that's really how they just came in on fire to Mid Atlantic. And I think, I mean they would have gotten over anyway, but the fact that they came in and won the titles as quickly as they did and, but they sold for, I mean they again kind of like I said with the gangsters again, perfect opponents for the big Russians who just beat down and beat down and they don't die. They keep, you know, keep, you know, trying to come back, trying to come back and what a, what a finish. I love the, I love the finish on that where they, where they won the titles. But I just, I'm not saying it's their greatest match by any stretch, but I just think it really represented the dynamic of what, you know, what really got them over. The fact that they could go out there and believably just take an ass kicking, you know, through the majority of a match and you know, pull it out at the end, but it doesn't feel forced.
[00:25:35] Speaker A: Yeah. Oh, I agree too. And here's the funny thing, and I would have never thought about this until Morton being on the show, he says that when he was in Mid south, they actually used the Russian team to do the same thing to get them over so that they were getting ready, they won the belts and they were getting ready for, to go against the Midnight Express. So it's kind of like when they went there to Mid Atlantic, the Russians were already there and except for they had Koloff there and they said, okay, let's, let's do the same thing and see if it works. And it did. I mean they got a huge pop for that win.
[00:26:13] Speaker B: Oh yeah. Because you just think looking at it like there's no way, there's no way they're gonna pull this off. But the way they did the pin at the end, it made sense, you know. You know, I don't think anybody was like, oh bullshit. That's, you know, the most cynical person in the world was like, oh my God. They, you know, they, they slipped through there and got it, you know, and it, man, talk about it. I'm sure somebody left there with their ears hurting that night too because that crowd went, you know, ballistic when they, when they won the belts.
[00:26:38] Speaker A: Nutty crazy. I just, I just, when we go to these. I just love these crowds so much and, and all the old school people and you know, like you said, I was always say, well, the crowds were so crazy. Right, right, right. And you think to yourself, a bullshit. I'm tired of hearing that. But it's true. They were crazy. We talked about Robert Fuller in the Middle Coliseum, how crazy 8,500 people were, you know, and it's the same thing with shows like this is that. Is that it goes back to. It shows you that the fans. And this goes back to. We talked about this before. They did believe.
And I think they're. They're more fee. They were more fever pitched to believe that if something was going to happen, then they are now that, you know, we're all smart fans. So.
[00:27:24] Speaker B: Yeah, exactly.
[00:27:26] Speaker A: All right, so the next match and I had to do some research to find where the hell you found this match at was it was the Rock and Roll Express against the British Bulldogs. And it was labeled When Worlds Collide. And that was really not the show it came from. I don't know if they. That's what they called the VHS when it came out or something, but it was a show called International Bash and It was from 1989.
[00:27:56] Speaker B: Yeah. So what happened was they took just that one, which was highly unusual for the time, but they just took that one match and released it on vhs, put it in the magazines and they called it When Worlds Collide. And they didn't even have the rest of the card on there. Of course, when you look at the rest of the card, you somewhat see why. I mean, there's one, maybe two other matches on that card that would have sold a vhs.
Certainly not the headlining match of Mike George beating Stevie Ray. Not Harlem Hate Stevie Ray, but Wild Thing Steve Ray via Count Out.
So I'll tell you what I thought, but what are your thoughts on the match itself, I'm interested to hear.
[00:28:39] Speaker A: Was long. It felt long. That's the way it felt.
I don't think either team really wanted. Maybe they just really didn't want to work each other. What did you think?
Well, it was, it was.
[00:28:53] Speaker B: It was a weird match because, you know, two of my favorite tag teams as a kid. Love the Rock and Roll Express. Love the British Bulldogs.
So it's one of those dream matches on paper, you know, Rock and Roll Express against the British Bulldog. But watching it, it was weird because at different points in the match, they both played heels and they both played baby fat. Like, did you notice that, like the Rock and Roll Express took some heat on them, rammed their nuts in the ring post at one point in the match and then it switched over and then the Bulldogs were working heel, more or less. So I guess it's because they mostly at that point had both always worked babyface. And it was just kind of a weird dynamic, but it's not what you would have thought. Like I say, when they had back in the magazines, they have the fantasy dream matches. I don't think that's the match anybody really envisioned them having. And of course the finish was awful. But I just included in there, in there because I just felt like it was very unique for the time period. And it is one of those dream matches that nobody would have ever thought you would have seen. And most people don't know it ever happened.
[00:30:01] Speaker A: I don't even remember it. I don't remember ever even making a big deal about it anywhere. And it might be because the way it was worked. Like you said there then, Barry, I mean, British Bulldogs in Japan did a little bit different psychology. This was. There was some people from Japan here on this show. I don't know if this, but back then, most of the time it was one set psychology. So to watch them do what they were doing, all I could get was I felt like, hey, they really don't want to be doing. Neither one of the teams really want to be working each other because they were both, you know, popular as hell.
[00:30:40] Speaker B: Yeah. And what's crazy, and of course, from the little bit of research I was able to do, they said it was just very, very poorly advertised.
300 people in the building in the city for the British Bulldogs against the Rock and Roll Express. Plus, you know, having, you know, the couple of other Tiger Mask was there.
[00:31:00] Speaker A: Cherry and Dory. Fuck were there.
[00:31:02] Speaker B: Exactly.
Hanson and Gordy, you know, so that was the part that blew my mind. But the 300 people there really seemed pretty damn indifferent to what was going on. Like, I don't. So that's what I wondered going into this. That's why I kind of wanted your take.
Do you think that they had a plan going in for one to kind of play the heel and the other kind of play the baby face?
But once they got out there and the crowd wasn't really reacting to one thing, they tried to switch it to the other and the crowd really didn't react so then they just kind of said it.
[00:31:37] Speaker A: Yeah, if I would have watched this before, I would have had to ask Ricky about this. I really would. Because it was one of those things where you, like you said you, oh, it's a dream match. A dream match. And then you're sitting through 30 minutes of wait. This is not a dream match. And both of these teams are so fucking good. What the hell is going on? So maybe it's, you know, it was, it was all about politics, you know, and all that stuff going on, just crazy. It was in Tiger Mask was even on this show. It was a lot of people and so and Rick McCord and Bobby Jaggers. So there you go. Woo.
But yeah, I guess maybe the fans.
[00:32:15] Speaker B: Were blown up from all those, you know, Bobby Jaggers and you know, Kiyosato and Mr. Hughes and everybody. By the time their match came around, they were just blown up and just over.
[00:32:24] Speaker A: You know, I think they, that was almost all those matches were not the style of wrestling they watched. That's the thing about it is Terry Dory should have knew that too. So it's just really strange. It was a strange card and I couldn't find much on it at all.
[00:32:40] Speaker B: Which is in the weirdest place possible. Like, who thought this car needs to happen in Kansas City? Which was deader than shit in 89 anyway.
[00:32:47] Speaker A: But still, hey, it's the perfect time to stop this episode and bring in my old buddy Lance to tell you about Manscape. Mirror, mirror on the wall. What is the best brand for my balls?
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I want to tell you though, man, Manscape has a performance package. It's the ultimate men's hygiene bundle.
[00:33:42] Speaker D: And included in this new package is the Weed Whacker tm. You know, I love that trademark Weed Whacker ear and nose hair trimmer which is waterproof and uses not a 9, not a 900, a 9000 RPM motor powered 360 degree rotary dual blade system. So it's A nose hair, nose and ear hair trimmer that provides proprietary skin safe technology which helps prevent the nicks, snags and tugs. That is not a legal firm, by the way. They did not do my divorce back in the day. But Nick snags and tugs in those delicate holes. So look guys, 79% of partners polled, and we know how painful that can be, admitted that long nose hair is a major turn off. So why not just use the best tools for the job? Here, this bundle includes the Lawnmower 3.0 trimmer. The best trimmer on the market for your, dare I say it? Balls, butt and body.
[00:34:35] Speaker A: Oh, man. It's time to turn that gooch into a Gucci. That's right. With basket. You know what I'm talking about. The gooch, it's like the, the man purse. You know, it's. It's a coin purse right up.
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[00:35:25] Speaker D: So the performance package is the best value that Manscaped has ever offered. And you STS fans, you get 20% off and free shipping if you use the code STSPOD. That's all in caps like Walter stspodandscaped.com and we have to say thank you, Manscaped, for making our holes look sexy.
[00:35:48] Speaker A: Thank you, Manscape. I like my hole looking sexy. You know, your last match is real fun. It's Nick Botwinkle against a young Ricky Morton. This is about a year before the Rock and Roll Express are formed in Memphis, Tennessee. So the year before he starts becoming popular and then, well, they actually become popular. They moved to Mid south. But this was a very young Ricky Morton.
[00:36:16] Speaker B: I would, you know, this was another one. I think maybe some people, you know, think, well, that's kind of weird to throw in there.
But I had watched it a while back. I just, it's one of those things that it was just. I watched something else and it said, hey, you might like this. And I was like, that's odd. And I watched it and I just thought it kind of, kind of spoke to how talented you know, I think a lot of people just think that, you know, Ricky became a good wrestler once he joined the Rock and Roll Express. But like, I thought, he had as impressive showing certain points of this match against Bockwinkel as he had against flair in 86, you know.
You know, the crowd seemed to get behind him. They weren't. They were in Houston, but the crowd seemed to get behind him. And I don't know, I just. It stood out to me as a good match for Morton at that stage in his career, knowing, you know, how long he had been wrestling and, I mean, nobody there probably thought he was going to win the world title. I don't know, but.
I don't know. It just. To me, it's. Seen the similarities to me between the Flair matches and this match. And, you know, it was kind of before Ricky Morton became so well known, at least to, you know, the national audience.
[00:37:27] Speaker A: That's what I was thinking. I was like, here you go, Ricky Morton. And you see this match and then you see the old idea that, that why did. You know Jerry? And you can go back, you'd have to ask him this, but why'd you pick Ricky Morton? I know because Ricky's dad was there and it may have been, you know, and why'd you pick Robert Gibson? But Robert Gibson's brother, Rick Gibson was a hell of a worker. So everybody knew Robert was good, too. But I think what Lawler knew was that Ricky was a good worker, that even at that younger stage of. Of his career, that he was a good worker and he had to get two good workers to be put in the role of the Rock and Roll Express. And he. I mean, that's what they did. They got two good guys that, that were really good. And this is the proof that he was going to be a professional wrestler. And I know that's probably what he grew up. That's what he was going to do no matter what.
But, man, and Bot Winkle just. I love Nick Botwinkle. I like his matches and I know he got a lot of criticism because he. It was just slow and methodical, but man, some of his matches with Lawler and this match just in his interviews, this just made me.
[00:38:37] Speaker B: Oh, I was about to say I loved his. Even as a kid.
[00:38:40] Speaker A: Oh, yeah.
[00:38:41] Speaker B: I loved his promos, especially going back. It was kind of before my time. But watching, you know, the stuff with him and Heenan and, you know, Ray Stevens and them all three together as just, you know, priceless. And so, yeah, I was a big. I was a Big Bockwinkle fan, which is kind of another reason I threw this match in there, because I don't think he gets enough credit from, you know, fans of who only maybe seen the tail. Tail end of his career, you know, when he's wrestling Kurt Hennig and AWA and stuff like that.
I just, I don't think he gets enough credit for. I think he played that world champion role, you know, really, really well when he would come to Memphis and places like that. You know, he carried himself so well and his promos were eloquent, you know, and I thought he was really somebody fans could hate. And this really, really, really made him want to go buy a ticket to see. See that local guy pin the snobby son of a bitch and take his belt.
[00:39:31] Speaker A: That's it. I mean, that's always what I thought about. His interviews were quiet. They. He was screaming. He was totally different than the other other heels. But always, you know, I always thought he was a world champion. When he walked through the door, that's the way it looked like every time on television. And we got off talk about Nick Bogal, still Ricky Morton, but Ricky was really good in this match. And I know probably if you can talked about when go after the match, he probably said the same thing, you know, hey, this kid is really good kind of thing. All right, we already know the answer to this, but I'm gonna go ahead and ask you, was it really that good? Was Ricky Morton really that good?
[00:40:07] Speaker B: He really was, from his, you know, his younger days starting out to.
I was telling you before we started recording, I watched the match he had with Joey Janela at Joey Janela Spring break for the GCW Collective, and he was over with the fans. They had a hell of a match. And he's still finding ways to be innovative and relevant in 2020, despite all that's going on. And, you know, for a guy his age, it's dangerous. You know, a lot of people came out of that show with COVID and so it's kind of dangerous. But he's still going out there. He's still drawing crowds and making money. And I'm glad to know that he has a wrestling school and he's passing on all that knowledge he has because, you know, he's one of the last true baby faces in wrestling. So let's hope he passes along for a lot of other peoples.
[00:40:55] Speaker A: And I honestly think the two Rickies, him and Steamboat, and you know, you can also throw in Jerry Lawler and Hulk Hogan in that. That conversation because they're totally different reasons. For Hogan and, and Lawler that just took heat and then, you know, pulled the strap or made the comeback. And not as workers workers. Hogan and Lawler definitely were not the workers that Steamboat and Morton were. But. But as a baby face and you caring about that baby face and him taking the heat almost every night and then the same thing with Steamboat and them not dying. There's something that can be said if you watch a Ricky Morton and Ricky Steamboat as, as babyface. You can take a beating for the whole match almost. You don't have to do a bunch of hot moves. You can take a beating and don't die, though. If you keep that fire and then just start building the fire and boom, making the comeback, you can get over huge baby Face and I. That's totally missing in this business. It doesn't exist. Not whatsoever.
[00:41:59] Speaker B: Now every person, no matter what level they're at in, in the business today, if you are a baby face or you going to plan to work at all as a babyface, you should be studying those two guys almost exclusively. Because like you said, the moves, all that other shit is all immaterial. If you learn to sell like them and can fire up at the end or at least make that hot tag. If it's a tag team match, I mean, you're. You're golden. Nobody drew fans in like those two guys. And one more thing before we go, I just want to say I started to be a complete heel and just an asshole and picked three York foundation matches so I could justify saying no. It really wasn't that good.
I couldn't do it, man. There's too much good stuff out there to do that.
[00:42:45] Speaker A: Thank you. I appreciate that. All right, guys, same bad time, same bat channel on the best little wrestling podcast in the business.
Be there. And as everyone knows, Gene does too.
I love my mama. Thank you, Gene.
[00:43:04] Speaker B: Thank you.
