Pro Wrestling Time Tunnel Presents: Personalities, Territories, Towns & Buildings Episode 18: Ontario and Calgary Canada 1975

[00:00:02] Speaker A: Time for the Pro Wrestling Time Tunnel podcast. [00:00:05] Speaker B: We've got lots and lots of things to talk about and to do today. [00:00:08] Speaker A: Covering the territories from the 1940s to the 1990s. It's the best thing going today. Interviewing wrestlers, referees, authors and other media. [00:00:22] Speaker C: Personalities that have made the sport of professional wrestling great. [00:00:27] Speaker A: The cream, yeah, the cream of the crop. And now, here's your host, Tony Richards. [00:00:36] Speaker C: Hey, everybody. Welcome to another edition of the Pro Wrestling Time Tunnel podcast. We call it Personalities, Territories, Towns and Buildings because we cover all four of those particular things in our podcast every single week. And I have some fantastic guests. This week is no exception, because we're going to talk about some of the great personalities in pro wrestling. We're going to talk about some territories, we're going to talk about some towns, and we're going to talk about some buildings in Ontario, Canada. And my great friend and the wonderful wrestling historian, Wes Maidment is going to be up first here today. He's my first guest and he's going to talk to us about Ontario, which you probably remember had the great building of the Maple Leaf Gardens in the fantastic wrestling city of Toronto. And he's going to take us through 1975 in Toronto and Maple Leaf, but also some other promotions you may never have heard of before, including one that was run by the Wild man, also known as the Bear Man. And he's got some great stories because he has followed and researched the career of this guy to the nth degree, plus some other promotions I know you probably have never heard of before. So can't wait to share this with you. Let's get going on the show. First up, my friend friend, Wes Maidment. And we're going right now to Toronto and Ontario, Canada. Hey, everybody. Welcome once again to another episode of the Pro Wrestling Time Tunnel podcast. I'm Tony Richards, and we're talking personalities, territories, towns and buildings. And today I'm excited because for the first time we're venturing outside the United States and we're going into another country and it just so happens to be our neighbors to the north, the great country of Canada. And I have one of Canada's great pro wrestling historians, Wes Maidment, here with me this evening, and we're going to be talking primarily about Ontario wrestling history, and we're going to be covering the year of 1975. So I'm so excited to talk through that, Wes. We've been friends now for a few weeks, and every time we get together we have great conversations, so I know this will be no exception. [00:02:59] Speaker A: It's, it's, it's, it's funny how this connection is, this takes place with the Internet. I'm, and we're basically the same ages. I'm baffled on how much this creates friendships. Just like back in the days when people were trading tapes or trading danzines or programs. I've made more friends in the last two years because of wrestling podcasts than I have in my whole life. It's great. And being here with you and I like your specificness of being focused on a year and I think you said it when you were going back 50 years. [00:03:39] Speaker C: Right, right, exactly. [00:03:41] Speaker A: So it's nice that we can focus on a year that kind of keeps it in, into, into a little bit of a structure as opposed to, you know, trying to talk about 1960-1980 kind of thing. [00:03:53] Speaker C: Yeah. And, and I, I like to talk about, like go around and have the different guests about the different territories of what was going on that year in 75 and what's going on with the different personalities and the different towns. And we're going to talk about one of the most historic buildings in pro wrestling history tonight in Maple Leaf Gardens. And so I'm excited to get started. So where should we start in 1975? Within the province of Ontario. [00:04:22] Speaker A: So just a little precursor for my American friends. [00:04:26] Speaker C: If that would be me too. That would be me. [00:04:29] Speaker A: If Ontario was in the United States, it would be the fourth largest state. So then you're going to take into consideration a state like California or Texas. They had many, many different wrestling promotions and even territories in their own state. So like California had like LA and they had San Fran and then they also had, at the top of California they would have had the Silverstone or what's his name, Don. [00:05:03] Speaker C: Oh, Don Owen Don. [00:05:05] Speaker A: Don Owens. [00:05:06] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. [00:05:06] Speaker A: So in Ontario, concentric to the bottom of Ontario, which is closest to in New York state. They, it was mostly centered around Toronto, which is the biggest city in, in the province. And we couldn't go anywhere without talking about basically the man who controlled wrestling in Ontario for 40, 50 years, Frank Tunney. He actually had his office in Maple Leaf Gardens and he promoted in Maple Leaf Gardens from when the building was built basically in 1931 until his passing. And that was him and Vince McMahon senior, both passed around the same time, which was kind of weird. But yeah, Maple Leaf Gardens was a mecca of not just wrestling, but hockey concerts. It was a multi use building. Gigantic. 17, 18,000 fans for wrestling if it was standing room only. And, and we're going to briefly talk about that in a bit. But I went to concerts there, I went to political rallies there. I saw the Ice Capades and circuses and anything else that was there. But when you go to a building that's got 17,000 people in it, and whether it's Hulk Hogan or Ric Flair or the Sheik or whoever, that, that pop of that many people in the building, it just sends shivers down your spine. And I remember seeing the first time seeing Rick Flair, for example, come out and up the famous ramp and you know, I'm sure people could Google that if they wanted to. There's the famous ramp in Maple Leaf Gardens. And yeah, Flair, for example, could, could do no wrong in Toronto. Whether he was a bad guy or a good guy, he gives, he was loved. And seeing that. [00:07:04] Speaker C: Sorry, I was just gonna say he had that effect everywhere. Like, it was pretty amazing. Like he, he got over in both directions. It was, it was amazing. [00:07:14] Speaker A: I, I really close to one of my favorite wrestlers. So back to 1975, Tunney had promoted in Toronto and he, he didn't own a lot of the area. He sort of lent it out to his friends and they were the agents or they owned some of the times in places in Ontario, the people who were the managers of the local arenas in the small towns, they were the quote, promoter of the area. So, so, so did. [00:07:46] Speaker C: Was Tunny just primarily, was he the booking office then that booked the talent in for these local promoters? [00:07:53] Speaker A: Funny thing is, Frank Tunney didn't book. He wasn't a wrestler. He wasn't a. He obviously he made his livelihood from wrestling, but he didn't, he didn't do any of the booking. He didn't do anything. He just sort of had his territory and he dealt little bits of it out to his friends. [00:08:12] Speaker C: So who, who would have been the person who would have been booking the. [00:08:15] Speaker A: Maple leaf shows in 75 would have been mostly the Chicago. [00:08:19] Speaker C: Oh, she. Okay. [00:08:20] Speaker A: He would have been booking most of the matches. And I think some of the guys say, like Johnny Valentine, for example, would have been coming to Toronto still at that time. He would have, you know, he, he, he was a big enough star. He would be able to say what was going on. And people like that would have been able to not book their own matches but have their say on how to get over. [00:08:44] Speaker C: You know, Tony, and I've written about this before. I've got a question for you about him though. He and Mushnik were so tight. Do you know much about the origins of their friendship? How it started or how they got to be such good friends. I mean president and vice president of the National Wrestling alliance and partners in St. Louis and just a really close relationship. And it's funny that they both sort of started exiting the business around the same time, you know, you know much about how their friendship started. [00:09:24] Speaker A: Two old school guys who started way back before, like we can even think about remembering or our parents even, and they just, they just hung together. I think a lot of the connection was because Kinisky and Watson were big for Tunny and he booked them right across Canada through, throughout the 50s and 60s. And of course they were so big in St. Louis for much too. I think there was a, a closeness there and, and Whipper owned points in St. Louis, as did Frank, I'm sure, I'm sure Kisky did also. And I think Tony was also the treasurer for a while for the nwa. He was, but he, it's been said in, in different books and things that Tunny was a bit of a peacemaker maybe because he wasn't an ex wrestler, that he could step away from that bravado that wrestlers have to have and, and be able to be the common sense kind of guy. [00:10:28] Speaker C: I gotcha. I got you. All right. [00:10:31] Speaker A: He, he, he doled out probably 30 areas and cities and little hamlet, not hamlets, but little areas in Ontario that one person would run three or two or three arenas in the general vicinity. And you know, in Ontario we had A towns and B towns. So the A towns would be running, you know, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday. And then the B towns would be, in the summertime they would be running like the cottage areas and the smaller towns just to get, let the fans out in the outskirts, say within 100 miles of Toronto to, for them to get to see some wrestling action. In the past, Vern Ganya had wrestled in the city where I used to live when it was like a thousand people. And Pat o' Connor had wrestled there, Kowalski wrestled there. So it's, it's. They were kept busy so there was no need to go anywhere. They were wrestling every night if they chose to. [00:11:34] Speaker C: So did Tunny own any other buildings besides Maple Leaf? [00:11:38] Speaker A: Yeah, that in 75 there was the Kitchener arena which was a probably 7,500seat state arena. London arena, which was approximately the same. These were all within, like I said, these are all within less than 100 miles from Ontario, from Toronto and Niagara Falls. Let me think here. Going east would be Oshawa, which was just outside of Toronto. Was a long time promoter there, Pat Milosh, who was basically in 1975 he was, he was, he was sort of done. He was hit. He had given, given up his best years already and, and we'll talk about the wild man a little bit. He had sort of taken over his territory so that it was a big a change was coming. And it was odd because 74 was a really good year in wrestling in Ontario. Everybody probably made money. Every arena was sold out unless it was perfect weather in the summertime. And that's, you know, a downfall for people don't want to go sit in arena unless you're a die hard fan. If it's beautiful outside and you're in your swimming pool drinking beers, what I think you bet. But Maple Leaf Gardens was the main site and in 75 they started switching to every second week. And the Chic was. The Chic was the main heel, the main booker, the main event every, every two weeks. And it was a rotating cycle of baby faces there. Kowalski Stasiak, Parisi, Billy Red Lions and Lord Athol Layton was still wrestling in and the many of the guys were tied to Detroit. So yeah, big time wrestling was still part of the focus in Ontario. Most of the guys were coming down from Detroit was on Saturday night. And Toronto, Maple Leaf Garden was always on Sunday night. That attendances in 75 were still pretty good. I still think they were pulling around around 10, 000 people. And I've worked this math a couple times thinking about how much money the Sheik made in his time in Toronto. And yeah, he had a 126 match run of being unbeaten in Toronto. And that's, you know, I know he was the booker, know he was the main star, I know he was huge. But that's just crazy to think of being unbeaten that long. But if you have 10,000 people every second week at even $4 a ticket back in 1975 or five, that over year is one massive pile of money. And I think Chic was making 6% at the time of the gate. [00:14:39] Speaker C: Wow. [00:14:40] Speaker A: And he might have even been making more because he was booker. [00:14:44] Speaker C: Just, just in perspective, what year would the Sheik's run start and when would it finally play out over that 126 match? [00:14:54] Speaker A: He wrestled a few times in the early mid-60s. And when Whipper started getting older and they hadn't groomed anybody to bring in yet to take over kind of like from Whipper being the main baby face. And the sheet came in in 1969 and it was, it exploded. It just exploded. That was about the time I became a fan. 1969, I think, around there. And was. It was just crazy to think about how a person could rule the roost for so long. And it was just week after week, so. 69 to 77. So, yeah, eight years. Two. Two matches he lost, I think. And it was obviously lots of double countouts and disqualifications, etc. Etc. Etc. Whatever they can dream up for this week, but. [00:15:54] Speaker C: Right. [00:15:55] Speaker A: Two losses only to Brazil and to Thunderbolt Patterson, but he gained the bill back in the next card. [00:16:03] Speaker C: Yeah. And. And for those of you that are just trying to do the math, I mean, we're talking about 26 shows in just 75 alone. Right? Twice a. Twice a month. Every month. [00:16:15] Speaker A: Every month. And. And it was. It did. Looking back now, Tony, when we look back, and some things just don't make any sense, you know, because we're all smart now. Right? [00:16:25] Speaker C: Right, right, right. [00:16:26] Speaker A: But at the time, people were dying to see the sheet, get the, you know, what kicked out of them. And they would. They would bring in baby faces, they would bring in heels. I mean, one of the favorite matches was Stas against the Sheik, Stan Stas. And of course, one of the finishes would be Stas hits the Sheik with the hard punch. But the Sheik's outside of the ropes and Stas inside of the ropes and it's a countout or reversed. Whereas she would be inside, get the hard punch, fall down, basically dying. But Stan gets counted out because he's outside of the ring for past 10. A great ring in Toronto. Huge, gigantic ring. And the ramp was so exciting to see the people come up the. The baby faces jogging up the four or five steps and running down the ramp and touching people's hands like rock stars. Right. And the heels coming into the ring, really explosive, exciting place to see wrestling. I just. [00:17:33] Speaker C: I just always. Because I. I don't know, it's just the way that it's connected in my head. When I think about Maple Leaf Gardens, I think about two other places. I think about St. Louis and I think about Houston. And almost every wrestler I've ever talked to that worked in St. Louis since you brought up the ring, they talked about how hard it was. Like, it was. They used old boxing rings at keel Auditorium in St. Louis. Do you know much about how the ring was structured? And was it a hard ring, a soft ring? Did it have a lot of bounce to it? What did it sound like when you were there, as a fan, that kind of stuff? [00:18:13] Speaker A: I. So I remember once, it was. It was Andre against one of his foes. In the 80s. And that Andre had body slam. Just, just say it was Kill Khan. I don't know. I can't remember who it was. And he, he, he body slammed him and the referee went like this. From the reverberations. It was, I think I, I would guess it was a 20 by 20 ring. And I, I have no idea if it was hard or not, but I know that that ring basically stayed in the Maple Leaf Gardens and they got put away. It wasn't like the ring that they threw in the truck and took somewhere else. [00:19:00] Speaker C: Yeah, larger. [00:19:03] Speaker A: A lot of the arenas in Ontario had their own rings because the wrestling had been there for so long over the years. [00:19:10] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, you brought up, you brought up Andre and you and I were talking the other day, just visiting and is that kind of when the chic streak kind of jumped the shark, when he had the Andre match in maple leaf in 74, is that, was that the beginning of the Sheik's believability starting to, starting to go the other direction? [00:19:33] Speaker A: It's, it's so sad because the Sheik was so hot and so powerful and so exciting in his own way, but he was, you know, when you're coming into the Ring in 1975, for example, his hair was starting to go gray. I mean, he was never muscular or anything, but, you know, he was, he's still a wrestler, but I mean, he was no physical thing. He was, everyone could see he was getting older and Andre and you know, everyone could watch, just Google, YouTube, Google Andre the Chic, the Fire, Maple Leaf Gardens or whatever you want. And it was the Andre in 74 or 73, 75. It was just. He was fantastic. I mean, he could do so many things that he just couldn't do. And most fans remember him in the wwf, right? [00:20:31] Speaker C: Yeah. And he was. And it was new. I mean, not a lot of people had seen him. And that was when we started to see film clips, right, of him, just short film clips to promote that he'd been in your area or he was coming to your area. And he was just so much different than anything you'd seen before as a fan. And he could move and he had a lot of mobility, like you said. You know, I remember him coming to. I remember him coming to the Tennessee territory in 74 and just. I was just, what, 11 at the time? And I just was staring at the television screen in disbelief at this monster of a human being that was gonna be live in our area, you know, just amazing. [00:21:18] Speaker A: It was. We had seen him in Ontario On TV for years because he had started out in Montreal with Grand Prix and we had Grand Prix TV in Toronto. So we were used to Jean Foret and Andre the Giant. So. And by 75 he had appeared in Toronto at Maple leaf gardens probably 10 times, I guess something like that. He was, I mean he usually came in for the big Christmas show or around Christmas time and always in the summertime for. And we'll get to this a little bit later, but he would always come in for Detroit, Toronto, Montreal tour and he would work for the Wild man also in Ontario, visiting unbelievably small towns. But we'll get to that after. But yeah, Andre was, I think. And everywhere I've ever read has said that that was the beginning of the end, that there's no believability anymore, right? Because, because you can only use cheap. I'll use the word dusty finishes so often. And if you're using them every match, every two weeks, people are just gonna stop coming. They're just, they just can't take it anymore. [00:22:36] Speaker C: Right. [00:22:36] Speaker A: You know how frustrating it was in that NWA highlights in the late 70s 80s when it was you, you know, the, the, the heel leaves the ring with the championship belt and it's like on tv, two weeks later it's like, well, he didn't win and then he just, just, it was such BS for a finish. Cheap. Really, really cheap. [00:23:00] Speaker C: Yeah, we saw Chic in Tennessee and it came in, took on Jackie Fargo and they had the basic 6, 7 minute brawl match and Fargo bled and Sheik threw fire and, and, and that was the end. But there was nothing else on the card like it, like all the undercard. Nobody else did anything like that. There was no brawling outside the ring, There was no, no cheap tactics or anything like that. So. And we didn't see the Chic every week, so it wasn't that big a deal. But when you saw him in Detroit and you saw him in Toronto and you saw him month after month and week after week, I could see where it would, you know, and then to go against somebody like Andre where you're like, there's no way. This has to be the end. This is, you know, the Chic is going down this time and then he doesn't, it's kind of like, okay, so, you know, I can't, I can't invest in this anymore. [00:24:00] Speaker A: And they, they push that every time. Like, hey, Sax Calhoun was coming in or Tony Pre series or the, you know, whoever was coming in and he just, there's no way that he cannot do. And it got tired. He got like, really tired. And I'm a, I'm a clippings guy. So I look back through my clippings and I remember this time frame and I go, oh, my God. Like, this is so brutally pathetic. Like, oh, my gosh. But we, we bought into it as, you know, in 1975, I was 16, so I was still. I was still a believer. Not a believer, but a believer. You know, I still like. I still like the sport and as much as I do now. [00:24:39] Speaker C: Well, we, we have a little bit of an advantage with our age of living in that time frame. That, and I was trying to explain this to somebody the other day, is to properly evaluate wrestling history, you have to do it in its context. You have to suspend everything from today backward to that point and evaluate it from the, from back and forward. Not from forward, backward. And so many people have a hard time doing that. Right. I heard somebody the other day talk about how somebody was like somebody, and they were talking about the person in the 70s was like the person in the 90s. I'm like, no, it's the other way around. The person in the 90s was like the person in the 70s. [00:25:26] Speaker A: That's right. [00:25:27] Speaker C: So, okay, so what was the, what were the big matches in 75 at Maple Leaf? [00:25:34] Speaker A: There. There was. Well, every. Every two weeks was a match and most of the guys had a three, had a two or three card run. So double count out, hit the ref accidentally by mistake in the next match, and then the chica always won. The. The, the third or the. What have they called the get out of town match or whatever it is. [00:25:55] Speaker C: Right, right. [00:25:57] Speaker A: And, and I. Talking about putting things into perspective, I, I have five wrestling history page Facebook group pages, and a lot of people comment on some of the posters and posts that I do. I'm saying, oh, that chic match was only four minutes long. Okay, I get it. That maybe the match was only four minutes long. It was 15 minutes before the match started because of his antics. And sometimes it was 15, 5, 10, 15 minutes after the fact of the sheep getting absolutely pummeled by someone, even though the decision's already been made. It's an after the end of the match fracas that's going on. [00:26:38] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:26:38] Speaker A: And so, yeah, if you look just at a piece of paper that says the sheep won in four minutes. Well, what do you think? Like, that's a squash, you know, it's nothing. You know, what do you do? A couple drop kicks, a hip toss, threw them in the corner A couple of punches and pinned him kind of thing. But no, it's not how it was. [00:26:57] Speaker C: Right. [00:26:58] Speaker A: It was the whole procedure of how he sucked everybody in with his antics and. [00:27:06] Speaker C: Yeah, and I think that's, I think that's lost on people at times when they only look at the match. Great performers are just that. I mean, they, they're able to perform for the audience. And there's so much more to it besides just what goes on. Bell to bell. Right, right. That's, that's what you're saying is like the whole spectacle might have been half an hour, but bell to bell was four and a half minutes, which was not that. Which was not the primary focus of his performance. Right, exactly like. [00:27:42] Speaker A: And you know, if you want to go back to Gorgeous George, for example, whatever videos you've seen of him, that was. How long did it take him to get. How long did it take them to hook up? How long? Every match, like every main event. Right. But my gosh, by the time the music started popping circumstances and he started strutting to the ring, it was probably 10 minutes before, even more than 10 minutes before they hooked up. And the crowd's going berserk. So there it's showmanship of, of a great talent. [00:28:17] Speaker C: And I think one of the things that I love about this particular time period is I think you always love the, the time period that you grew up with more than any other time period. But besides that, I think the bookers and matchmakers of this time period put more variety in the total card. There was different things for different parts of the audience. Like you might have the chic in a main event that was more spectacle and more. But right underneath it, you might have a classic wrestling match that lasted an hour draw or a 45 minute draw or a half hour draw. You might have a outstanding wrestling tag team match with two tag teams that could really wrestle. Or you might have the small guys, you know, the, you know, forgive me for the term of the time, but the midgets might have it, or you might have the women, or you might have a mixed tag team match with midgets and women or women and men, or. I mean, they just mixed it up a lot more throughout the entire card rather than just saying, oh, it was just a four and a half minute match. [00:29:25] Speaker A: And you made up a good point of saying, when you were talking about Fargo and the chic, if everybody on the card finished the match with a drop kick and a pin, there would be nothing special, right? Oh, you know, when I haven't Been to. I don't go to that matches very often anymore. I want to, but it's just things happen. Right, sure. You can't, you can't book a night of independent wrestling and have this, have two finishes or three finishes that are exactly the same. It's. Or have, or have. [00:30:07] Speaker C: Or have two or three matches where guys get hit in the head with a chair or a couple of guys that get slammed through tables or. I mean, it's like all of it's like that. You can't do that and expect the audience to react in a way that you want them to. Right. [00:30:22] Speaker A: Our age group anyways. [00:30:24] Speaker C: Yeah, right, exactly. Well, I think human beings are. I mean, I have a basic problem with people who say that the business has changed and I understand what they're saying, but actually human beings and the psychology behind human beings is the same as it's always been. But what we've done is we've gotten away from the way that it was presented to that psychology. Right. And that's the way I see it. [00:30:53] Speaker A: Anyway, so doing research, you see, you read something in the paper about two guys from the 40s who went 45 minutes with one fall, and you're trying to imagine what's going on. It's. And these guys weren't jumping off the tops of buildings or anything. They're just wrestling. [00:31:16] Speaker C: Right. [00:31:16] Speaker A: And maybe, maybe someone got thrown out of the ring once or twice, but, you know, that was it. And. And the mindset of the new breed. And I'm gonna take anything away from them. Athletic, exciting, doing their own thing. It's. It's not what we grew up with and it's not. It isn't what we. Like you said, it wasn't what we grew up with. And what is our favorite? Well, time period. Just like music, it's the same thing. Our favorite music is usually when we hit our teen, early teens. So it's. It's hard to explain to people. And I sometimes I try when someone puts up, asks a question. Well, you know, what, what do you mean about five minute match? Well, you know, explain to them briefly that it wasn't just. There wasn't two guys that came in the ring. They were still for five minutes and they left. [00:32:16] Speaker C: Right. [00:32:16] Speaker A: So it was a spectacle, it was a performance, and it's. We could talk about the past and now forever in a day, Tony. [00:32:28] Speaker C: Right. [00:32:31] Speaker A: It is what it is. But on the same note, we're here on a time tunnel talking about 75. [00:32:35] Speaker C: That's it. [00:32:38] Speaker A: One more thing. I'm going to say about Maple Leaf Gardens at this time, they dropped down to probably about eight matches. Whereas at one time in the early 70s, they used to have sometimes 15, 16 matches and 20, 25, 26, 30 wrestlers on the card. And people look at that and they think, well, how could that be? But it was a big building. Everybody got paid fairly. It wasn't like no one was going there and wrestling for free. And they were trying to bring up the young guys and you know, still keeping their, their quality guys around and keeping them happy in the semi main events or whatever. As you said, you know, there was. Women's wrestling wasn't allowed in Ontario until I think 1972. But after that we, we had, we had the ladies quite often and there was a huge population of little wrestlers. I don't even like saying that. I, you know, I got into arguments about that too. It's what they were called. They were called wrestlers. Sorry, they were called midgets. [00:33:51] Speaker C: Right. Again, everything in its historical context at the time, that was the name, right? That was, that was the way you were described. And they were perfectly fine with it. [00:34:03] Speaker A: They were the guys that trained, they were no different from the big guys. They wrestled, they got trained, they learned what to do was a little more comical. But on the same note, it was a draw. It was a draw for maybe dad to bring some neighborhood kids to watch the wrestling to see the midget wrestlers or something. Right? [00:34:22] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:34:24] Speaker A: Moving, moving from Maple Leaf Gardens, which was a mecca and it was the biggest place any promoter would have loved to have been able to have that, that. And no promoter ever got in ever without Tony's blessing. So yeah, we're going to run a little east of Ontario to the far east, which borders on Quebec. And talk about Larry Kozabowski, who was a long time promoter from the 40s right to the 70s, right around this time, 1975, 76, he was, he was a little older and he was getting ready to shut down. His Northlands promotion ran from Ottawa, which is the capital city of Canada and the eastern part of the province, all the way up to the North Country. And he promoted. He basically had all the cities and towns that were over 200 miles away, 250 miles away from Toronto and with Frank's blessing, obviously. Right. I think it was 40, 1944 or 45, he started promoting and he had a older brother, Alex Kazabowski, who died in the ring. But Larry was more of a homesteader and he did tour in the 60s, I think in the winter because of the hockey arenas in Canada were all full with hockey. So he'd head down south like many Canadian wrestlers would do, into the Louisiana or Mississippi kind of things. Yeah, And Casaboski had a. A great thing going. He had a few core guys that lived in the area and he'd bring in some, not the biggest stars, but some of the people who started with him were. Nikolai Volkov started there. Gito Mongol sort of started there. Ronnie Garvin and Terry Garvin both started there. So he, he had a few guys who. Down south. There was one team, I saw a picture of them in the mass medics. Yeah, their tag team posts. And there was one Quebec wrestler who wrestled a lot for Kaz Bosi, Don Lori, who was. Ended up. He ended up being one of the mass medics down south. So it was a grooming territory. Lots of guys from Ontario that I know started there and loved him. It was a summer territory, more of a. End of winter, spring, summer to the middle of September, basically territory. And they worked every night too. So again, we're talking about a big area, big problem state. [00:37:19] Speaker C: So did Larry Kozabowski, did he have an affiliation with the federation or was he an independent or. [00:37:26] Speaker A: He was basically independent, but closer to the end he started running in conjunction with the Quebec Promotions Grand Prix, which is the Vachons, the Rougeaus, which was All Star Wrestling. Raymond Rougeau, I think, had some of his first matches there. [00:37:44] Speaker C: Great. [00:37:46] Speaker A: Awesome. So he, he was a couple of. A really good book and it was called the Wrestler from Renfrew. That was the home city where he lived in Ontario. And really good. Nice book. Quite in depth about his career and his time and how he ended up getting out of the business because his way of promoting had kind of dried up. You know, he. He drove the ring truck, his son sold the tickets kind of thing, and the boys all put the ring together and tore it down and kind of like a homey kind of home based business. [00:38:26] Speaker C: Yeah. If he would have, if he would have been somewhere in the States and not in such a large land territory, he probably would have been part of a. Of a territory because most of the territories in the states had that guy that was the local guy who took care of the ring truck and ran the concessions and they ran their particular town. Even though the booking office booked the talent. The. Every town had a guy like Larry, you know, that sort of was. That was their entrepreneurial business was doing wrestling in that town. And that was good for the booking office to have that person because that's how they got the town up and going. [00:39:10] Speaker A: They would have never succeeded in somewhere that was 300 miles away from their home base. If they didn't have a guy who. [00:39:18] Speaker C: Was quote right, it wouldn't have been. It's a little hard for modern fans to maybe get this. But just to run your television show in that market wasn't enough. You needed somebody to work with the local organizations and do fundraisers and to set up ticket outlets and do those, kind of manage work with whoever had the building. All of those things were really vital to getting a town going back in this particular time period. It wasn't enough just to have the television show. [00:39:51] Speaker A: It's a thousand percent correct, Tony. And we move on to our next subject here. We're going to blow that right out of the water. [00:40:01] Speaker C: So I'm very interested in this part of our program because I just started going through, probably about a year ago, I started going through WWW F results in the 70s and I came across this guy and I'm like, who is this guy? Like, who is the Canadian Wild Man? And then I meet you and I get your Facebook group and I see your T shirt and I'm like, this guy was something else. Like, so I'm. I'm excited about this. Tell us about the Wild Man. [00:40:33] Speaker A: Well, first off, I started collecting his clippings in the 80s. I knew about his promotion, but I was never. I had never been to any of his shows. And I'm going to tell you right now, I told you this when we were talking the other day. Yeah, I was. I was a closet fan. So as a little kid and a youth, I had every. Everyone that I hung with. Everyone loved wrestling. And then as I got older, nobody liked wrestling. No one. Absolutely no one. And I had no one to go with. And I chose to live more of a carefree lifestyle. We all did with my. With my money. So I was a closet fan, but I watched TV religiously as much as I could, and I started collecting his clippings. It was. They were different. They're just so different. And you're. Your producer is going to post some of them up. So that's going to be really interesting because his posters are so iconic that they're. They're just completely sought after so much. They're going for hundreds of dollars now, whereas a year or so ago you could. Two years ago, you could still get them for 50 bucks at an antique mall or something like that. [00:41:53] Speaker C: Well, you've done such a great job promoting them that you've pushed the price of the market up. So that's, that's great. [00:41:59] Speaker A: I have, and I've, I brought, I bought posters, personally found them and sold them to people who I thought wanted them more than I did, which is, you know, I would love to have more posters in my collection, but it's, it, if someone wants it more than you know, I gladly gave it to them, sold it to them. Sorry. [00:42:21] Speaker D: Right. [00:42:21] Speaker C: Yeah. Yes. So what was it about? What was it about him? [00:42:26] Speaker A: He, he was a one man show. He had some great stars wrestle for him in the past. He promoted from about 1966 right up until his death in 1988 when he died in a car accident in Newfoundland with Pat Kelly and Adrian Adonis. And he, he, he had a ridiculously tough life, just incredibly tough. And he persevered, persevered, persevered as a one man show. They say that he promoted shows even though he knew he wasn't necessarily going to make any money. Kept the boys happy, influx some money in the areas that he promoted. And there wasn't very many places in Ontario and it's a big province that he didn't promote. He promoted in baseball, parks, arenas, fairs. He just did it all in those years with newspaper ads and posters, no tv. I'm, I'm sort of working right now on a documentary on his life. We've been working on it for a few years. [00:43:44] Speaker C: How cool. [00:43:45] Speaker A: And we hope it, we hope it can, we hope we can find a producer for it. So it, we interviewed so many people that were in his promotion and everyone said the same thing that he, he was a great guy, a great payoff man. Andre loved working for him because they got along. They just got along. And it wasn't a matter of pay with Andre. It was a matter of friendship. [00:44:13] Speaker C: So what was the wild man's weekly loop like? What towns did he run and what was that schedule like for people that worked for him? [00:44:24] Speaker A: He crisscrossed the province the, the boys all talk about. Sometimes it was a 300 mile run from town to town. So they just drove all night, drinking beer, throwing the beers out the window and setting up the next day when they got to the rim. Tying the time one of his wrestling bears up to a tree somewhere outside of the arena. Oh wow. The bear destroyed some cars or some park or something. And he, he was, he was a wild man. Definitely a wild man. So he. 1975, he had just come off a really good year in 74 where the Mongolian stopper stopper had come out to Ontario from Calgary and he wrestled From May to September, they wrestled every night. Every night. And Dave made a lot of money, a ton of money. That that summer 75 he had, he had Andre work for him in 75. The sheik was working regularly for him now, even though he was still working for Tunny. [00:45:29] Speaker C: Oh, wow. And besides his Detroit stuff too. Right. So he's working for him. Yeah, the Sheik was on the road a lot in 75. [00:45:39] Speaker A: That's pretty amazing. It's crazy to think about how much mileage that the Sheik would have done in his life. Yeah, Dave had most of the local guys that some people would. Would know, like Billy, Red Lyons, it's Dan Stasiak, Tony Parisi, the 75. He would have had Chris Cole that year. Still, some of the guys from Detroit, Rip Hawk, Hanson, Lewin wrestled for Mark Lewin. King Curtis, Furpo Abdul, the Butcher, the list just goes on and on. Kevin Sullivan wrestled for him. [00:46:17] Speaker C: Yeah. King Curtis is over in Calgary in 75. Would he have just gone over and worked for Wild Man 2? Just, just Curtis a couple of weeks at a time or they had brought. [00:46:33] Speaker A: Because in Toronto, and we'll get to this a little later, but in Toronto we had a great array of TV shows. So they brought Lewin and Curtis into Toronto in the summer of, I think, 75, and he did maybe a mini tour with Dave on the. In between the two dates for Frank Tundy at the Maple Leaf Gardens. [00:46:55] Speaker C: Oh, wow. [00:46:56] Speaker A: So that, that was one of the things that T didn't mind. He didn't mind his guy, his guys working for Dave. Dave and Frank got along pretty well. It was said that at one time Frank lent Dave his Dave and we're talking about Dave, Dave McKigney. [00:47:13] Speaker C: Yep. [00:47:14] Speaker A: Slash, Gene Dubois. Slash. The Wild man, the Bear man. He, Tundy had lent him his insurance rider to do shows. And at a cost, probably, of course, but. And eventually insurance put the Wild man out of business because it just ended up costing too much. [00:47:33] Speaker C: But, but I've seen, I've seen Dave as the Wild man on a lot of Maple Leaf shows. [00:47:40] Speaker A: Yeah, he, he, during the tiny years, the Frank tiny years, he would, he would be there and he would bring the Bear. And sometimes one of the star bears was terrible, Ted. And they had traveled in, I think I counted 32 states they wrestled in now. [00:47:57] Speaker C: Did he? Didn't he. He tried to have some television in 75. Like, I think I saw one or two shows where Angelo and Lanny Poffo are on there as the NWA World Tag Champions. And I think that was a Dave McKigney show, wasn't it? [00:48:15] Speaker A: It was, it was his only try at tv. They taped it in one of his big towns, which was London, Ontario, which was about 100 km west of Toronto going down towards Detroit. And it was a fantastic take, a fantastic show and I love, I love. [00:48:33] Speaker C: Him for that because we don't have a lot of tape of Angelo and Lanny at that time. A lot of people from Kentucky like me are in love with them because they did the ICW promotion after that in the late 70s, early 80s. We all loved that promotion because we thought it was ours because it was based in Kentucky and they had been in Kentucky earlier in 73, 74, working for Phil golden. And then they went to work with Chic in Detroit and went to work in Maple Leaf and here at this McKigney show. And I'm like, man, I'm glad he did that show because we have that tape now all these years later of them doing their heel act, which they were. Well, Angelo was a heel, but Lanny was always a baby face in Kentucky in icw. And so it's interesting to see that time capsule of him doing his gymnastics and being a heel, which his gymnastics was making me mad as a fan. So it was working as far as being a heel. But I just love Dave for having that made that tape for us that all these years later. [00:49:39] Speaker A: I, I tried finding out what happened, why it never succeeded, why it never went on. And most the people that I would have been able to get a, a quote from or they're gone. And, and my research from that is just, I just stopped because I kept asking people, I asked a lot of the Detroit people what happened? Do you know what happened? And no one knows what happened. Whether it was the Sheik was holding him up because the Sheik's his mobile TV studio truck had come to London to take the show. That's how it got taped. And so we don't know if the Chic held him up for money or no idea. But it's, it's sad because at the time he could have partnered probably with the Chic and went against Tunny for smaller stations around the Toronto area. And they probably could have been six more successful than he was. But Dave, 75, Dave was still making tons of money working Probably I'd say 150, 275 shows a year in Ontario. He was, he was non stop, he was either wrestling or he was promoting. And that was his, that was his gig. [00:50:58] Speaker C: The Chic did not have a nice track record of partnerships. So I can imagine it probably was something along those lines. [00:51:07] Speaker A: Yeah, the, the word I heard and that was talking to Brian Solomon and to Dave Brzezinski that he, not that Brian Solomon ever met him, but he did that fantastic book. [00:51:23] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:51:26] Speaker A: Blood and Fire, that when you were on the ends, you were the, his best friend and when you're on the outs, you, you, you were, you were faceless. Totally nothing. And he had, he had the power to do that, which is really weird because we all know what happened to him. He just wouldn't change. He wouldn't let go. He wouldn't bring any new people up. And his promotion went and just got. [00:51:58] Speaker C: Toilet pretty much alone at the end of his life, you know, which happens to a lot of guys like that who do not play well with others and do not develop good relationships. And so, you know, he, I covered this in the, on the Briscoe and Bradshaw show, on the Jim Barnett shows. We did, you know, Jim Barnett tried to do what right by him when they went into Ohio and West Virginia and Sheik's girlfriend made off with the, with the box office one night, you know, and never, never sent the money back. So Barnett just said, okay, no more partnership with the Sheik. We'll just run it, you know. And so you do those kinds of things over time to enough people. You end up with nobody. So. [00:52:45] Speaker A: And when you burn your bridges, you, you end up with nobody. And Dave, Dave was gruff and probably a little bit of a recluse if it came to fans. But all the wrestlers, all the wrestlers I talked to, I'd say 40, maybe 50, even wrestlers that worked for him said he was a great guy, a great payoff man. Promised. Gave what? Always gave what he promised, even if it was to his loss. All right. It would be sad to not say that some of the tragic things that happened in his life, you know, one of his bears killed his live in girlfriend and, and oh no to, to think about that happening in, in the context of the real world as opposed to. I was lucky enough to go to the house and stand in the room where it happened and it was just completely surreal. But it was very exciting also to know that Andre the Giant had been and slept there on the couch, probably on the, in, in the living room and the bears, the bear pen was still there that you could see. So it was pretty, pretty interesting to see. [00:54:01] Speaker C: Oh my. [00:54:02] Speaker A: I, I love his little guy fighting against the world promotion and what he stood for and what he did that's why I forget. I pour so much energy into his, his promotion. My, my page for him is coming up to nine years old now and it's, I've. I learned something new just about every week. [00:54:29] Speaker C: So let's, let's take just a minute because I, I just know we've got people listening and watching the show who are just, they're just yelling at me right now to ask you, can you just briefly tell the story of what happened with the girlfriend and the bear? [00:54:44] Speaker A: Well, the they. He was talking on the phone to Tony Parisi and phone. There was a big show coming up. We always had a big show in Toronto on our Canada day, which was July 1st. And they had a plan to do the show and Dave was going to bring one of his wrestling bears. Terrible. Ted was just about retired and he had Smokey the Bear, who was turning into a really great wrestling bear. Dave was cleaning the. One of the bear pens. Lynn, his, his live in girlfriend had answered the phone and passed it through an open window. Dave turned around and said, lynn, get out of the house. The bear's in the house. And most people think that it was a problem with maybe a menstrual cycle or something like that. And the, the bear just, just squeezed the life out of her. Dave hit the bear over the head with a couch. He was charged at the time for. I don't think he was charged with murder. I mean, I think he might have been charged with accessory to manslaughter or something like that. It was, it was in the newspapers everywhere here and it was, it was brutal because we're so used to the unreal portion of wrestling, right, that, that, you know, we, we see people bleeding or they're hurt or whatever. And then you see them outside the arena, they're walking to their car, they're fine. And this was, this was reality. Right. It's so sad. And the, the lady's daughter is on one of my, she's on one of my groups and we, we've talked at length about it and you know, I wouldn't say she's still traumatized, but pretty darn close. [00:56:40] Speaker C: Of course. [00:56:41] Speaker A: Of course. [00:56:41] Speaker C: That's understandable. Okay, so tell us about the uwa. [00:56:47] Speaker A: Okay, this is really exciting because they came into Ontario in late 74 in December and they started out in Ohio. And I don't know if you've ever talked with Terry Sullivan. He had something, Terry Sullivan out of Detroit, he had something to do with it. And I talked with him about it before and he, he doesn't like talking about it because he lost some money and was treated fairly by the owners. But Universal Wrestling association, sometimes known as. What was another name, I can't remember the other name they went by, but it was out of Ohio and it was splinter group from the Sheiks promotion Big Time Wrestling in Detroit. And the. Jack Kane who was the booker for the Chic left and started this promotion up with mostly killer Tim Brooks and Tony Marino and they, they were main eventing everywhere. They had some big shows. They, they ran the Toledo Sports palace and lots of places in Ohio and Michigan and Indiana. Indiana. But they came into Ontario with a bang and it was a new, new zip on life, if you want to call it that because of the. Everyone here was used to the Chic and his TV matches and this was just like a new breed of wrestling that came in with, with new people that we hadn't seen that much. Sailor White was one of the big, big draws. Kurt VonHass was there and they ran some smaller arenas but they ran every two weeks, every three weeks for months and months and months. And it was a, a big deal to have another promotion in town in Toronto. So everyone was really excited about it. They had half decent crowds and by the summertime they, their promotion had dried up and blown away. [00:59:02] Speaker B: Oh wow. [00:59:04] Speaker A: Although I was just talking with Kurt Von Hess's daughter the other day. Paige. Paige Von has. Or that's not her name but. [00:59:15] Speaker C: And she was Sutherland I think might be her name. [00:59:19] Speaker A: Yes. [00:59:19] Speaker D: Yeah. [00:59:20] Speaker A: We were talking about a chap named Fred Major. I don't know if you've ever heard the name. He was associated with wrestling in South Africa and around this time he was pals with Dalio Jonathan and we think that they may have been running some of these shows because Jonathan was still a big star in D.C. british Columbia and in the west coast and for him to come down to Ontario for single shots would have been crazy. So we think that he, him and Fred Major were sort of the remnants after the fact when UWA was dying out and Jonathan hit some of the bigger towns that UWA was hitting. But it didn't last long. And by the sum by June 75, that's the last listings I have for matches for them. Still exciting, interesting. And it's always nice when different promotions on tv, right? Whether. Whether you only get to see the TV or not, but it's always nice and, and people, people who don't didn't have two different TV shows on their TV growing up. And we'll talk about this In a bit. But we were so blessed in Ontario. Oh, my gosh. We'll leave that for now. [01:00:42] Speaker C: Yeah. All right. So Tony Parisi, you have him down here as somebody you want to talk about? [01:00:48] Speaker A: Yeah, we. Tony was a big star in. Not just in Ontario, but he was. He was Bruno Sammartino's cousin in the 60s as. As Puglisi. And he was from Niagara Falls, Ontario, which borders on, of course, Niagara Falls, New York. And he was very famous there. He had a restaurant and a hotel, and he got a promoter's license, which was tough to get in Ontario also because Tony. Tony ruled the athletic commission in Ontario. And the people that Tony liked got licenses, and the people Tiny didn't like didn't get wrestling licenses. So Tony had a license, and we've got some promotion for him in 1975, throughout the summer and spring in Niagara Falls. And he had basically the same stars that were working for Frank. It was just another payday for the guys kind of thing. And they were running actually on the off Sundays from the Maple Leaf Garden shows, so. And their ads were different. I never got to a show, unfortunately, but their ads were different. And they never had TV either. But everyone knew those stars because of Chinese tv. [01:02:04] Speaker C: Yeah. And then George Cryberry. Be. Crybaby Cannon. [01:02:09] Speaker A: Oh, man, I will never take anything away from George Cannon for trying. He just kept on going, kept on going. But his TV shows were, in my estimation, poor. The only reason I watched them was, was because I just wanted to see wrestling. But the. Louis Martinez and some of the guys were getting a little over the hill. And there was some, there was some younger guys, but it was, again, it was just another TV show on tv. And Canon morphed from Windsor, Ontario, which is the far east, far west of Ontario. And he taped in. In Windsor, taped in Toronto, moved further east and ended up taping in Montreal 10 in Montreal, Quebec. And he probably promoted on TV. He had TV for years and years in Ontario and in Canada because he had a deal right across Canada. And like I say, I, I, his shows were, excuse me, officials I thought were lame or tame or whatever, but yeah, it was still wrestling. [01:03:32] Speaker C: And he was connected with the chic in some ways, right? [01:03:34] Speaker A: I mean, he, he was connected because he, he, he was from Windsor, which was across the river from Detroit, and they, they had known each other. And George MacArthur, who was George Cannon, had worked in the. Started out in, basically in the Michigan territory anyways. [01:03:54] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. And he had a crybaby act. Everybody, he, he was. [01:04:00] Speaker A: I, I liked him as A. As a manager and in the ring, but as a host of a TV show, he was subdued. [01:04:11] Speaker C: We saw him in the early seventies in the Tennessee territory. He managed the Fabulous Kangaroos. The Don Kent and Don Kent. Yeah. Al Costello version of the Kangaroos. And he was, you know, he was somebody that you could not like, you know, as. As a man. Yeah, yeah, he sure did. Sure did. All right, you've referenced a couple of times how many television shows and how blessed you were to get all this wrestling. So tell us a little bit about the television. How many shows were there? [01:04:48] Speaker A: Well, when we were lucky, we had cable TV in the Toronto area in the early 70s. And we had. In, I'd say up to 1973, we had WWF out of New York, we had NWF out of Buffalo, which was the National Wrestling Federation, which was Pedro Martinez, Johnny Powers and the Fargo brothers, and a lot of the Toronto Stars with Frank Tunney. We had Vancouver tv, which was Gene Kinisky and Bob Brown, Damio, Jonathan Moose Morowski. Those guys. This. This was every week. And then we. Off and on, we. We would get Calgary, which was Stampede, right? And then in about 72 or 73, we got grand Prix Wrestling out of Montreal. So again, we've got Killer Kowalski, Vashon Vacheron brothers, We've got Andre the Giant. It was. It was bizarre being yelled at by your mom to go outside and play when there was four or five hours of wrestling on. In a row on a Saturday afternoon. And I think we would have probably had four hours on Saturday, and then on Sunday we had two hours of wrestling. And it. That was right through. Right through the 70s. And sometimes they change because Canon had TV. So one would drop and can. Excuse me, would take its place. But we got. I remember seeing highlights of Pedro Morales winning the belt from Ivan Koloff on. On tv. And. Oh, gosh, my. One of my favorite promotions was the National Wrestling Federation because I love the Fargo brothers. And that would have been Donnie and. And. And Johnny, who was Greg Valentine, obviously. But I. I can't even imagine what it would have been like when someone says, oh, my God, you had that much tv. We got to see a lot of wrestling and a lot of stars. [01:07:08] Speaker C: You know, one. One name you haven't mentioned. And I don't know, because I. I mean, Canada is such a broad country. But since you got Vancouver. Did you get the other side? Did you get the Cormiers? Did they run in television? And. [01:07:22] Speaker A: Oh, they. They never came out that far. They ran in eastern Quebec, which was Part of their territory was still part of Quebec and the Maritime Provinces, New Brunswick, Nova Scotia, pei. Yeah. And. But yeah, it would have been, it would have been nice because then we would have been able to see young J.J. dillon and Johnny Weaver was up there in the 70s, right. With a couple guys from the Mid Atlantic. But, and, and the Cormiers were fantastic. They ended up at the end of Maple Leaf Wrestling before it went to wwf. They were basically the tag team, the best high tag team in Toronto. And times were, times were going tough, but they were still exciting and they were good, right? Oh, yeah, with the Cormiers. [01:08:12] Speaker C: Yeah. Leo Burke was just a huge, massive guy who could work, and it was just fabulous in that, you know, working big man type category. I think he, it was in some territories in the U.S. he was the Beast, but his older brother was the beast. Oh, the older brother was the Beast. [01:08:33] Speaker A: You might remember from your area, Tommy and Terry Martin. Tommy Martin, yeah, that was legal. [01:08:40] Speaker C: Yeah, Tommy and Terry Martin. They, they worked in Kansas City. Jerry Oates was on the show and they did a lot of tag matches with the Oats brothers and Jerry. Jerry Oates and Mike George and I think Jerry had a feud with Terry over the Central States title. But yeah, I mean, they were all. [01:09:01] Speaker A: Great workers and they, they had a huge feud in the early 70s in the mid Atlantic also with the Royal Kangaroos, which I remember from the magazines thinking, oh, it's. This looks absolutely brutal. But the Mid Atlantic at the time was a huge tag team area. And yeah, you were good. You got pushed there. You knew you were, you knew you were a star for sure. [01:09:26] Speaker C: Yeah, from time to time I'll go back to 65 and do some postings. And they were there even then. They were, they were doing a lot of television tapings and a couple of the Cormier brothers were there in 65. Sometimes one of them would be on one side and one would be on the other. But yeah, they, they, they got over big with Mr. Crockett, for sure. [01:09:49] Speaker A: They, they were good. I, I like them. I only seen them on, on, you know, on YouTube now, but yeah, but then, you know what, Tony, we like you said about your, your time frame of when you grew up was your. One of your favorite air time of when you came to love wrestling. And I, I'm just, I feel blessed because, you know, I, yes, I love the era I grew up in, but I mean, because of the Internet and YouTube kind of things, we get to see so much now that we just never even knew about. So it's so exciting to watch. I'm enamored with Mid Atlantic because of the stars, but watch so much Tennessee because there's so much out there. And the. Memphis was so good. Oh, my gosh, I never saw Lawler live. I. I never thought anything of Jerry Lawler, actually, ever, until I started watching on YouTube. And he was so good. [01:10:54] Speaker C: Oh, my gosh, he really was. I mean, we were blessed there. And then in the late 70s when Jarrett and Gula split, then we had two promotions, and we always kind of did. The Tennessee territory was so big. We had the eastern and the western end, and Jerry Jarrett always booked the western end, which eventually became what's now known as Memphis. It was always based in Nashville, and even the both booking offices when they split were based in Nashville. But because the television was done in Memphis for Jerry's promotion, it kind of take on the Memphis promotion moniker. But I mean, every. Every weekend we had tell, like sort of a little bit like you. We didn't have as many shows as you did, but we saw television from Nashville, we saw television from Memphis, we saw television from Louisville, and they were all live and taped. And so the shows were all different with different combinations of these. This large roster of stars. That was. I mean, the best story I've ever heard about how big the Tennessee territory was is that a guy was talking about how he was in the territory with another wrestler and they didn't meet up for like a year. And he goes, how long have you been here? He goes, we've been here for a year. And they're like, oh, my gosh, we just now ran into each other. I mean, that's how big the territory was. You know, from Mississippi to Alabama to Missouri to Indiana to Kentucky to Tennessee. It was just a huge geographical area. [01:12:29] Speaker A: And it's hard to fathom if you don't know that the. The actual physicality of the area. [01:12:36] Speaker B: Right. [01:12:37] Speaker A: I love maps. So, I mean, there's not too many parts of the states that I don't recognize how big or small they. I. I haven't. I haven't been to any of those states, but I've been completely down the eastern seaboard. And then, gosh, I. Again, because none of my friends liked wrestling, all the traveling I did when I was younger in the states, I could have seen all. All sorts of wrestling life. But. [01:13:04] Speaker C: Right. [01:13:04] Speaker A: I remember sitting in the car going, oh, but no, we got. We'll get you beer. It's more important. [01:13:11] Speaker C: Yep. Well, listen, Wes, thanks for coming on tonight and. And educating us about Ontario history in 1975. I had a wonderful time. Tell everybody about your different Facebook groups and in case they want to come by there and join up after listening to you talk about all your knowledge about Ontario history and the Wild man and all that. So what are the, what are the four or five groups you have to offer? [01:13:36] Speaker A: Well, thank you very much, Tony. It's been, it's been my pleasure coming on your show. I've watched some of your episodes and it's nice that, it's nice that we've been able to make friends. [01:13:48] Speaker C: You bet. [01:13:49] Speaker A: And it's nice that we're working on keeping wrestling history alive, which is what, what drives me every day. I have five Facebook wrestling groups. One of them is for Ric Flair, which is, it's just a nice to see some different perspective on, on the nature boy. I have one for British Columbia, which is the province in Canada and that was where basically Gene Kinesky, Daniel Jonathan and those guys are all wrestled during the 70s. [01:14:18] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:14:19] Speaker A: And, and the most famous, Al Tomko who Just, just a tip for your tip for your listeners if you get a chance. Google Al Tomco TV on YouTube. It's pretty brutal. But so we have Ric Flair, British Columbia. I have Ontario page history page with that one now I think is six years old. [01:14:43] Speaker C: Wow. [01:14:44] Speaker A: So that would be. Just Google my name. West Maidment or nwca, which is a National Wrestling Clippings Association. That's our, basically our, our over the top umbrella name. Ontario wrestling history. We have the Wild man page which is tribute to the Wild Man. And then my main page is the National Wrestling Clippings Alliance Group and it has 25003000 members. We cover, we try to cover the world and I know it's impossible, but I have so much stuff to share and with the Internet you can dig up anything. I just before we went on there, I dug up something on Victor Rivera just for, for the heck of it. So I, if I think of someone, I look for someone and hey, guess what? I was thinking about Victor Rivera the other day. Here you go. [01:15:39] Speaker C: Yeah, good. Well, listen, Wes Mademit, he's been our special guest tonight. We've been talking about Ontario wrestling history, particularly in 1975. We've covered everything from Maple Leaf Gardens to the Wild man to, to UWA to all this stuff. And I hope you've enjoyed Wes being on our show and, and giving us this perspective on Canadian wrestling. Wes, thank you so much and I hope you'll come back sometime. We'll do, we'll do when we get later in the year and we talk about ending up 75 and going into 76. We'll have you back to do that. Okay, awesome. [01:16:13] Speaker A: That'd be great. Tony, thank you so much for having me on. I wish. I wish you all the best and all your listeners. I hope everything goes smooth with them. And it was all my pleasure coming and being on your show. Thank you. [01:16:24] Speaker C: All right, wonderful. Thanks, everybody. Well, I hope you enjoyed that visit with Wes Maidment, who is a wonderful wrestling historian. And you should check out some of those Facebook groups that he mentioned and go and join those because he's got some. He posts every single day in there. And he's got some amazing history, as you can tell by his visit today, and some of the things he talked about and some of the things we showed you here on the show. He does a fantastic job. And now that he's going into retirement, he's going to have even more time to do even more history, which is good for all of us because he's going to be documenting and finding more history about promotions and about things all across Canada. So Wes made men. He is a gift to the pro wrestling history space. Hey, if you like what we're doing here in the Time Tunnel podcast, you might want to visit my substack channel, Tony richards4substack.com and when you go there, you're going to see a daily wrestling history newsletter. We're up into issue one in the 120s. I started this newsletter back in April of this year, 2025, and I put it out every single day. We do analysis on wrestling cards from the decades of the forties, the fifties, sixties, the seventies, and the eighties. We talk about the national expansion of the eighties. We talk about special events, special matches, things that happen on that day in pro wrestling history. In every single issue. We talk about the birthdays of wrestlers that have passed on. We talk about the birthdays of wrestlers that are still active and or maybe retired, but they're still alive. And we also talk about the people who passed on. We call it the RIP Salute for that day. And we list the wrestler. And the thing I like to do is I want to find wrestlers and promoters and people that you may never have heard of or are kind of lost to time that people don't. Don't talk about in everyday wrestling history talk. And I like to put those on there and remember them. Any wrestler debuts on that day in history, we list those. So that's the daily Chronicle newsletter. It's called the Pro Wrestling Time Tunnel Daily Chronicle. And it's a pro wrestling history newsletter I put out every single day. And you can get that with a free subscription. All you have to do is put in your email address where you want me to send it, and I send it out about 4:30am Central every single morning for that day. Also, I have some paid content. So paid subscribers, if you want to subscribe for less than a cough, a cup. A cup of coffee. If you go to Starbucks and get some coffee, it's gonna be somewhere around five bucks. And so if you put in five bucks a month, which is $50 for an annual subscription, so we save you $10 a year if you do the annual. And you'll get the Daily Chronicle, and you'll also get what you get for free. But then you'll also get my paid content, which is the research that I write, which may or may not fit in these books I'm working on, or that things that I just all of a sudden find interesting, and I start writing about them. I just published an article about Whiskers Savage, who was maybe the biggest draw ever in the city of Houston, Texas. He was a Texas world champion back in the 30s. And so I just did an article on him. Not long ago, I did an article about the first masked man in Amarillo territory in Texas called the Masked Marvel. He wasn't the first Masked Marvel, but he was the first Masked Marvel in Amarillo. And he was booked all that summer. And that's where they first came up with the Mask at Stake match. And his mask was at stake several times that summer. And so those are the kinds of things that you'll get if you get a paid subscription. Right now I'm releasing an article on Sam Mushnick's retirement as NWA president at the NWA convention in 1975. That was a very pivotal convention because Mushnik stepped down and they elected Fritz Von Erich as president. And Jack Briscoe had given notice that he was ready to give up the world title. And the championship committee had to vote on a new world champion. And of course, we know that was Terry Funk. But I cover all of that in an article about the 1975 NWA Convention. There's also an article coming out about Jack Briscoe's July NWA World title schedule. There's a article coming out about Jim Crockett promotions, month of July 1985, which at the time is possibly the biggest revenue generating month they'd ever had in their company's history. A lot of that comes with a paid subscription. It's all at my Substack channel. Plus you get this podcast for free, of course, also. So a free subscription or $5 a month or $50 a year gets you paid content there at Substack. Okay, let's get to the second guest on today's show in the second half of our show. And the great Larry Lane is coming up now. And Larry, somebody that I got to know because I interviewed him for my Dorie Funk Senior book. He was broken in Amarillo by the Funks and he also worked there a lot in the 70s. And Larry is just a fantastic guy and he and his wife Gwen have both just been wonderful friends to me and I wanted to have him here on the show and talk about his career, which at this point in 1975, 50 years ago, he was working for Stu Hart in Stampede Wrestling. And we're going to cover from January to July in Stampede Wrestling 1975. Let's go to that right now, my conversation with Red Dog, Larry Lane. Hello again, everybody. [01:22:46] Speaker D: Welcome to another edition of Personalities, Territories, Towns and Buildings. I'm your host, Tony Richards. And today we are going to be talking about the career of one of pro wrestling's outstanding performers, Larry Lane. And we're going to be talking about 1975 and he was spending that year in Calgary, Alberta, Canada territory. And he's joining me live right now from Colorado. Hey, Larry, how you doing, man? [01:23:13] Speaker B: Well, I'm doing great and even greater knowing that you're talking about what I used to be. [01:23:20] Speaker D: Well, you went around the world a couple of times, so we just want to go around it, you know, just maybe around one country for you today. So how did you get in the wrestling business? [01:23:29] Speaker B: I was an amateur wrestler starting out with junior high wrestling. Two years, four years in high school wrestling, four years in college wrestling at Colorado State College and then two years in the service, one year on all army and one year on the all service wrestling team. And wrestling was always in my blood. And when I got out of that, I went back to coaching for a year and decided I went through competing and so I decided that I'd go into pro wrestling. So I went to Amarillo, Texas and met up with the Funks and got my start and took off and had a 10 year career. [01:24:06] Speaker D: Who did you talk to there that kind of brought you into the business and got you going? [01:24:11] Speaker B: Well, I talked to Dorie Funk senior and I went down in March since I was teaching school in Farmington and talked to him about getting into pro wrestling and he told me all about it and asked if I was ready to start. And I said, no, I'd like to start in June after I finished my school year. Luck would have it. Or bad luck would have it. On my way into Amarillo, he was on the way to the hospital and he died that night with a heart attack. [01:24:39] Speaker D: Yeah, I had a chance. That's kind of how our relationship started, yours and mine is. I had a chance to interview you for my Dory senior book. And you think you might have even passed him on the highway? Huh? [01:24:52] Speaker B: You know what about the same time I was coming into Amarillo and. And Canyon and he was on the way to the hospital. Yes. And man, and then of course, like I think I told you before, I thought, my gosh, this is my one chance and it's going to be blown. But I went to his funeral. And both Dory Jr. And Terry, if you just give us a couple of months to get everything organized though, we'll give you your try. [01:25:20] Speaker D: Wow, that's wonderful. Well, you've been in the business a couple years by this time in 1975. How did you get hooked up working for Stu Hart? [01:25:29] Speaker B: Well, it's kind of amazing. I was wrestling in Amarillo and a couple of Stu's sons came down and they saw me wrestling everything. And Terry was very supportive of me and said, you know what? And we want you looking good, you know, before you really get going great here. So we're. You have a chance to go to Calgary. And so I went up to Calgary and met Stu and everything and. Which was a good move. He gave me great opportunities up there. [01:25:58] Speaker D: You get started at the first part of the year in January, in 75, with a guy that does not talked about a whole lot these days. But I really want to talk to you about him. A guy named John Quinn, who was also known as the Kentucky Butcher. And you were in a program with him in January. What memories do you have of John Quinn? [01:26:18] Speaker B: You know what John Quinn was, you know, start off with a very physical, impressive person. He was six, five six six, maybe 300 pounds. And if there was ever a real life Paul Bunyan, you know, that would remind you. He was real hairy too. He had a hairy chest and stuff. Very impressive person, very good wrestler. And I wrestle him a lot and also had him as a tag partner quite a bit. [01:26:47] Speaker D: There's quite a few guys in Calgary at this time that kind of resemble this. But he had a real. I mean, what a look for a heel. I mean, he really looked impressive and scary, you know. [01:27:00] Speaker B: You know What? He was the epitome of what you should look like if you're a pro wrestler. [01:27:04] Speaker D: Yeah. [01:27:05] Speaker B: And also a good person. He was. I like competing against him and I like competing with him. Yeah, he was, he was one of the good ones. Also a good friend of mine. [01:27:17] Speaker D: They. They decide to put the title on you. So on January 10th in Calgary at the pavilion, you win the North American title from Quinn. [01:27:28] Speaker C: Do you remember that at all? [01:27:29] Speaker B: Oh, yeah, you know, you have, you know, up in Calgary, we wrestle about seven nights a week. So, you know, had a lot of matches and, you know, a few standout and that's one of the standout matches. [01:27:43] Speaker D: I mean, the big title changes and the big things that happen more often than not took place on Friday night in, in Calgary. Who would have come to you and told you they were going to put the title on you? [01:27:56] Speaker B: Well, probably, probably the booker and. Or probably Sue Hart. [01:28:02] Speaker D: Was Mark Lewin booking at that time? [01:28:04] Speaker B: Mark Lewin? I, I think maybe came later. [01:28:08] Speaker D: I see. Well, he, he's in a tag team with you here In January of 75, you guys are in a tag team and you're booked against John Quinn and King Curtis, IKEA in some matches. [01:28:23] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. Okay. Well, then apparently he was there. Well, he was the booker when he came in. He came in as the booker and of course King Curtis came in as one of the top heels. [01:28:34] Speaker D: I was just going to say they traveled a lot. I think they had been in Australia together when they, they got there. [01:28:41] Speaker B: Yeah, came in and he was the booker and King Curtis was a very impressive, mean look and heel. I mean, he was, they did some pretty good business in, in the territory and stuff and. Yeah, and I, again, very good competitors and also, you know, good people. I got along with both of them fairly well. [01:29:02] Speaker D: So what was it like to work with King Curtis? I mean, that dude is. He's big, big old Hawaiian and bulky and all that. What was he like to work like in the ring? [01:29:14] Speaker B: Well, you know what, Believe it or not, you know, we. And I had almost exactly the opposite style of his and stuff. His is a. The mean thing and whatever, and I was the wrestler type and. But you know what? We had some, we had some good matches, drew some pretty good crowds with him. [01:29:32] Speaker D: What was King Curtis like away from the ring backstage? [01:29:35] Speaker B: You know what? Believe it or not, he was, he was a good, good man. Good guy. And he was very, very receptive to me. For some reason he, he liked me even to the point that when he left the territory, he bought me a Cowboy hat and gave it to me. [01:29:53] Speaker D: He loved horses, man. So he. He was probably in heaven there in Calgary with all the cattle and the horses and everything. He was a big horse guy. [01:30:01] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. And you know what's amazing? In the Calgary Stampede, he rode a horse the stampede. And I rode a horse on the stampede. [01:30:10] Speaker D: Oh, man. You got any pictures of that? [01:30:13] Speaker B: Oh, yeah, actually. Actually has. I don't know if I have King Curtis or not, but I've got him on my wall with me with an abdominal stretch on him. Yeah, I have a picture. [01:30:27] Speaker D: I got that picture from Gwen. She sent me that. [01:30:29] Speaker B: Okay, great. And then I have the picture of myself on the horse and in the stampede. [01:30:36] Speaker D: Well, if she didn't send me that one, let's make sure she sends me that. I'd like to have that. So you. King Curtis goes over on you in February, like a month later after you won the title. So the title goes over to him for a heel run with the title in Calgary at the Victoria Pavilion. What were fans like in. In Calgary? [01:31:01] Speaker B: Well, I'll tell you what. They had King. King Curtis had. Had the crowd go on to the point that one time we got out of the ring and was fighting on the floor and. And some little old lady grabbed both two handfuls of his hair and hung on. And I had to kind of rescue him from. From that. I had to tell her to turn him loose. I'll take care of him. Because, man, he. She had two hands full and she was pulling and it was tight and he was. [01:31:33] Speaker D: Yeah, go ahead. Sorry, Larry, go ahead. [01:31:35] Speaker B: But yeah, she had two handful and. And it was tight and he was actually kind of begging for help. So I told the old gal that turn him loose, I'll take care of him. And she finally did. [01:31:48] Speaker D: He was one of the best interviews in pro wrestling history. I mean, he could really work the microphone. [01:31:54] Speaker C: I. [01:31:55] Speaker D: But then I also, I mean, and he was, you know, he came across big, loud and boisterous. But I saw him on an interview where he was just kind of being himself and he was just a real pleasant, nice fella. [01:32:06] Speaker B: Oh, he was like I said, you know, he was. We got along good, had some very good matches and stuff. And he was. He was everything that a heel should be. And we had good matches and he was. He was a good person outside of the ring. [01:32:21] Speaker D: And so here they bring in another. They just keep bringing in these guys that they work with just in all these different territories they go into. They work for a few weeks, then they bring in another guy that they work with and mix him in. And so the next guy they brought in to mix in was Mr. Hedo and they brought him in late February. Do you remember Mr. Hedo at all? [01:32:43] Speaker B: Oh, I remember him well. He. We had a lot, a lot of matches and again, a good person, but God dang, he was. He was great to work with, even though he didn't know any English, you know, to speak of. I mean, he knew a few words, but not. You couldn't converse with him. But yeah, Mr. Heidel was. He was a dandy, a very good heel. [01:33:05] Speaker D: So when you guys went in the ring, you just did it by feel, right? [01:33:08] Speaker B: Oh, yeah, yeah. There was no, no communication at all other than physical, you know. [01:33:14] Speaker D: Where did the television get done? Where did you guys do television back this? [01:33:19] Speaker B: Okay, we did it at Calgary and actually we had our big matches in Calgary and we also had our interviews in the ring at the same time as the matches. So have they had a segment in there where we. We did interviews. [01:33:32] Speaker D: So the television was just part of the house show every Friday night, huh? [01:33:36] Speaker B: Exactly, yeah. And you. Ed Whalen would go in the ring with him. He was the ring announcer and they also. He would interview you. [01:33:46] Speaker D: So the weekly travel schedule was Monday you were in Lethbridge, Tuesday you were in Red Deer. Wednesday was Saskatoon, Thursday was Regina, Friday was Calgary. And then once a month you'd hit Edmonton. That's the main. Those are the main towns. And you had other towns you went to as well. What were you going to say? [01:34:08] Speaker B: Well, I was going to say that Edmonton was not once a month, it was every week. [01:34:13] Speaker D: Oh, what day was that on? [01:34:14] Speaker B: That was on on Saturday. So we had Calgary on Friday and we had Edmonton on Saturday. [01:34:20] Speaker D: I see. Well, I'm glad you told me that because it's just based on what the records we have, you know, and we don't have records for everything, so it's hard to tell sometimes. [01:34:30] Speaker B: Edmonton was one of our, our big shows. I mean, it always drew a big crowd and stuff and yeah, it was. It was as big as Calgary, probably. [01:34:38] Speaker D: What was it like traveling those towns every single day and every night? I mean, that you're covering a lot of ground there, aren't you? [01:34:46] Speaker B: Well, yeah, and. And seven days a week. And the one thing that you didn't have is that usually on Sunday we had a spot show. So we pretty well wrestled seven days a week. And I can honestly say there was one year I. If I had one day off in that year, I don't know when it was and it was tough. And it was kind of funny that we go to Calgary. Well, we drove 500 miles from Regina to Calgary and then we pretty well swept. And the next night we went just a short 200 miles to Edmonton. It was almost like a home event, you know, only 200 miles. [01:35:24] Speaker D: So I mean, you're covering some ground if you think 200 miles is a short trip, right? [01:35:30] Speaker B: Yeah, it was, it was almost a day off. You know, we didn't, we didn't have to leave until noon or sometime and get there, but it was good. And you learned to sleep. If you weren't riding in a car, you couldn't sleep. I mean, that's where we did all of our sleep and was in the car when you were going from one town to the next. And if you had a short time to be at home while it's took advantage of it. [01:35:55] Speaker D: I've heard guys talk about work in that territory and there were stories about all riding together. Did you guys all ride together in one vehicle or. [01:36:05] Speaker B: Well, actually all the, all the baby faces rode in one van and the heels in another. We didn't, we didn't ride with our opponents. [01:36:14] Speaker D: And did, did you have to have the van or did Stu have the van? [01:36:19] Speaker B: Well, Stu provided the van. He. Stu provided transportation in Calgary. That was a big thing. [01:36:25] Speaker D: What was Stu like? [01:36:26] Speaker B: Stu was a good guy. And you know what. And it's, it's like I said, Stu really liked me and he liked my amateur background and we go along great, even to the point that he took me to a couple of houses that he thought was for sale. He wanted me to buy a house in Calgary and, and stay there. Yeah, I got along absolutely great with stuff. [01:36:49] Speaker D: What did he have in mind for you to do? [01:36:51] Speaker B: Well, just to wrestle and maybe. Well, and maybe book some of the time, you know. So yeah, he, he liked me. I could say that. Could have stayed there my whole time. [01:37:01] Speaker D: Yeah. And did you, did you like it there? I mean, you obviously didn't think about it as far as staying because you probably wanted to get back to Texas. But did you enjoy staying there for the time you were there? [01:37:15] Speaker B: You know what? I really enjoyed Calgary. Even though it's like they said, you know, you have nine months of winter and three months of bad sledding up there. But, and it, and, and literally, I mean it was, it was cold, it was 60 below zero. And you know, you had to have a snowmobile suit and boots and everything that you carried with you in the car in case you had breakdown or Something very, very cold. It was unbelievable. [01:37:40] Speaker D: So. [01:37:41] Speaker B: But you adapted. [01:37:42] Speaker D: So In March of 75, you guys start working in 6 mans on top. And so on the heel side, it's John Quinn, king Curtis and Mr. Hedo. And then on your side it's Mark Lewin and yourself and Dan Crawford. So tell me about Dan Crawford now. [01:38:02] Speaker B: Dan, Dan Crawford. And I'm just telling you lie there. He, he was a wheeler dealer. I mean he was a, he was a con expert, in fact, to the point where, and I don't know how you get these new people come into the territory and hit play cards with them and he would always take all their money from them. Oh, and different things and. But you know, Dan was one of these guys that, you know, he was con artist. I knew it and he knew that I knew it, but we got along great and he was funny to me and very likable. I got along good with Dan. [01:38:35] Speaker D: He was the guy that sort of was in the first ladder match, I think up there in County. [01:38:40] Speaker B: Well, you know what, he was the one that I guess invented it or brought it about. Yeah, it was, it was good and it got over great. [01:38:48] Speaker D: So you do those six mans for a couple of weeks and then you go to eight man tags and here's another guy they bring in that was with them in Australia and he comes in on the heel side. Big Bad John. Remember anything about Big Bad John? [01:39:03] Speaker B: Yeah, but Big Bad John was pretty well just a manager of the, of the guys and he, he did the interview. And even though, like you said, King Curtis could do a heck of an interview, but Big John was the one that always interviewed and, and he did a good job. He was great on the mic. [01:39:20] Speaker D: Then on your side of the eight man, Stu comes in and works. Could Stu still work in 74? [01:39:28] Speaker B: Well, he could throw an uppercut. If you don't believe it, ask the guys he worked with. [01:39:32] Speaker D: I bet. [01:39:33] Speaker B: So yeah, like I said, Stu was good. I like those two. [01:39:38] Speaker D: I didn't want to go, I didn't want to go down in the dungeon with Stu any year, but I was just wondering what kind of shape he was in by, by 75. [01:39:46] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. Well, he was, you know what, he was 62 and 75. [01:39:51] Speaker D: Yeah. [01:39:51] Speaker B: Because when I went up there in 73, he was 60 and he always liked to put his submission holds on people and then have them try to get out of it. And when I went on the mat with him, well, I knew what he was up to. So I always bailed myself out before he got to the pain point. Yeah, but he was, he was a sadistic old guy and he loved to hear people holler. [01:40:16] Speaker D: So you're these eight man tag team matches, they were adding in a stipulation where you're going three out of five falls. Do you remember doing those? [01:40:25] Speaker B: I remember it a little bit, but that, that didn't last very long. [01:40:29] Speaker C: Right. [01:40:29] Speaker D: It was just for the week or two that you had those eight mans. [01:40:33] Speaker B: Yeah. And yeah, it was just kind of a extra bonus, you know, or something different or whatever. Just another promotional thing that you could, you could work with and try to make money with. [01:40:44] Speaker D: Yeah, just make the matches a little bit different in, in the towns. Then in April you. In April you get a new tag team partner coming in. Frankie Lane. And you guys are going after Hito and Quinn who've got the international tag team championships. What'd you think of Frankie? [01:41:01] Speaker B: Well, Frankie was, you know, he, he was a good, good wrestler and I mean, he went hard all the time. It was go, go, go, go. You know, there was. And good worker, you know, typical wrestler. Didn't have, you know, a lot of. Oh, he had. Had good personality, but didn't have a whole lot of morals, I guess, is what I'm trying to say. But yeah, but he was fine. I got along good with it. And actually, you know, the fact that, you know, I had a good amateur background and stuff, you know, I was kind of respect, respected for that. [01:41:38] Speaker D: Yeah. [01:41:39] Speaker B: And so anytime I worked with him or work as their partners, we got along pretty good. [01:41:45] Speaker D: Well, some people say he had the best chops in the business and you were his partner, so you didn't have to take those. But you remember him giving those? [01:41:53] Speaker B: Well, somewhat, but I thought mine were. [01:41:56] Speaker D: Better where they probably were. You had the, you, you were the Lane that had the best chops then. [01:42:02] Speaker B: Oh, yeah, exactly. And people always ask if we were brothers, but he had a Y in his last name. [01:42:10] Speaker D: Yes. So In May of 75, you get another tag team partner. I mean, they just keep switching your tag partners up. This is your third different tag team partner this year. Bill Cody teamed up with you in your program with Hedo and Quinn for the tag belts. Have you ever met Cody before this? [01:42:28] Speaker B: I never met him. And. And you had something about. He had two brothers that I never met at all. [01:42:35] Speaker D: Yeah, Lloyd. [01:42:36] Speaker B: Yeah. And I never met those. They never, they were never in Calgary when I was. But yeah, Bill Cody was a good worker. [01:42:44] Speaker D: And you were only with him a week or two and then toward the end of May, you ended up with Dan Crawford. And this goes back to your amateur background. It goes back to Stu Lichen, amateur style and all that. But you had something called a training match. Was that, was that an Olympic style amateur match or something? [01:43:05] Speaker B: You know, really what that was and why it got its name was that Dan Crawford was going to wrestle the world champion and. And he needed somebody to give him a little extra boost and stuff. And so they put me against him, you know, and. Which was kind of a compliment that, you know, I felt like I could help him do better against the world champion. [01:43:25] Speaker D: Yeah. So actually Briscoe came in there in July, on the 4th of July, I think is when they had their match. And also hero Matt Sudo was there, the world junior champion. So you had the world champion and the world junior champion on the same card there in Calgary, right? [01:43:43] Speaker B: Yeah. And the world junior champion, you know, didn't really catch on real, real big. You know, that was for people, I think under £200 or whatever. [01:43:54] Speaker D: But Danny Hodge dominated that thing for so long. [01:43:59] Speaker B: Just like he dominated amateur wrestling. [01:44:02] Speaker D: Yeah. [01:44:03] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:44:03] Speaker D: Then there's a. There's a few guys mixed into things. I'll. I'll ask you about them one at a time. Jack Pisik, he was the son of Tiger man, John Pisik of Nebraska. Do you remember Jack? [01:44:17] Speaker B: I remember Jack a lot. And I like Jack now. He was older when he was up there, but he was. He was a good, good worker and he. Different things. And he was black boy, and he was. He was kind of a. I guess an alcoholic at one time. And so when I knew him, he was really trying to stay off of the beer and stuff and did good. But Jack, Jack was a fun person and I mean, he was okay. And again, he was. He was older when I. I was with him. [01:44:50] Speaker D: Yeah. Did he ever talk about his dad? [01:44:52] Speaker B: No, not too much. Which is amazing because, you know, with all those miles of travel, you're always thinking of something to talk about or you're. You're either talking about old times or you're sleeping, you know. [01:45:03] Speaker D: Oh, sure, yeah. You're telling all your stories, right? Keith Hart, he's one of Stu's sons and this is his first full year in the wrestling business. Do you remember Keith? [01:45:14] Speaker B: Remember him? He was. He was my best friend and we, we traveled a lot together and Keith was one, one good kid. I really liked him. He was my favorite outside of Stu, but he was my favorite heart. [01:45:29] Speaker D: What did you think he was going to turn out to be in the business at this time? [01:45:34] Speaker B: Well, you know, he. He wasn't real big, but he worked hard at it. And one thing I liked about him that he even did some amateur wrestling and stuff, which I think really helped and really showed up good. When you, when you're wrestling that you have the wrestling Persona vacation and stuff. [01:45:54] Speaker D: And was he able to do an interview? [01:45:57] Speaker B: Yeah, he could interview you. He was, he was okay. [01:46:01] Speaker D: I just don't remember ever seeing him very much, so I was just kind of curious about him. [01:46:06] Speaker B: Oh, yeah, I had. Yeah, one time he was. He was kind of a steady tag partner of mine. We went. Went with him a lot, you know, when we wrestled the kangaroos and the Kiwis and stuff, he. I. He was my tag partner a lot. [01:46:21] Speaker D: George Iakaya does this some relation to King Curtis. He also wrestled as Blackjack Slade. [01:46:28] Speaker B: And you know what? I've never heard of him. And then when I see the. The name Ikea. Wow. You know, I always think of King Curtis, you know, but yeah, I never, I never met him. [01:46:39] Speaker D: He was in there tagging with King Curtis in some matches. So that was. I was kind of curious. [01:46:44] Speaker B: And of course, I could have been back in Texas or some other territory at that time. [01:46:49] Speaker D: Yeah, June, you get. You get another tag partner. And this is the guy you started out wrestling at the beginning of the year and who we started talking about at the beginning of the show. John Quinn. You guys are tagging up. Did they turn John Babyface then? [01:47:05] Speaker B: Oh, yeah, yeah. And, and, and he was a good enough performer that he could go either baby face or heel. And you get a really. A tough heel team in there. Well, you know, they'll. They'll accept almost anybody. And then the crowd. Crowd, even, like sometimes automatically they will, they will switch. The crowd will switch you. And all of a sudden, instead of booing you, will they start cheering for you? [01:47:28] Speaker D: So the Funks thought it was a good idea for you to come up here. You've been here six months. Next. Next time when we come back, we'll do 2H75. But I'm just curious, did you talk to them while you were up there? Did they ask how it was going? Did you give them an update or anything like that? [01:47:47] Speaker B: Well, you know, not too much, but actually, even Dory and I went up together when I was in Amarillo. We would go. Go up to Calgary and wrestle. And even. Even Terry. Terry and I went up and wrestled together in Calgary. We kind of kept in touch, but. But not, Not a lot. [01:48:08] Speaker D: What's your favorite memory of being in Calgary? Alberta at this time. [01:48:12] Speaker B: Well again the, the crowds were good. Stu Hart really liked me and you know he took good care of me and of course Keith, Keith was a very good friend of mine and we, we traveled a lot together and basically it's just having good matches and I had. The stomper was, was a very good partner and I had a lot of. Lot of our matches with him and stuff and you know Archie, Archie Goldie and he, we had a lot of good matches and that got over good and then he really, he helped me a lot. I mean that you know going in our matches probably when I hadn't been in the business more than three months we were going our matches so that, that was a very good good time. [01:49:02] Speaker D: You know he might be the best wrestler to ever come from there. Huh? Archie Goolie? [01:49:08] Speaker B: Well I thought I was. [01:49:09] Speaker D: Well you not from there though. You from Texas. [01:49:13] Speaker B: Yeah. Well you're true. Yeah, yeah Archie was great. He very good. He a very good interview too. Yeah, he could interview. He could and he got into his interviews. [01:49:23] Speaker D: I was just going to say that was so amazing in the second half of his career is he never talked. You know he always had a manager but in the first part of his career he was a great interview. [01:49:33] Speaker B: Well yeah, I mean that was one of his strong points. Very physical looking person and like I said had the great interview that heck you could. He could bring the crowd down just with talking. [01:49:45] Speaker D: What was your favorite town to go to? [01:49:48] Speaker B: Well actually, well Calgary. Calgary was great. I mean that was one. Edmonton was good. Saskatoon and Regina they were. They were good. Regina was very good. I was accepted very well at Regina and that's where they took a lot of pictures and stuff of us. [01:50:10] Speaker D: So it sounds like the second half of the week was better than the first half. [01:50:14] Speaker B: Oh yeah. And that's true. And then you know of course sometimes they draw good and Calvary and Edison all grew good and even though you, you try to give the same kind of a match, you know when you're wrestling before hundreds or before, before thousands, you know. [01:50:32] Speaker D: And so of the guys we named and talked about were there guys that were over in some of the other towns? Well actually, actually their town. [01:50:43] Speaker B: Yeah. I can't think of anything right off but no really whatever they promote, you know they, they promote the main events of course and, and that goes all the way around. They get the same television. So actually it's basically the same. So if you're over in Calgary you're probably over in Edmonton, you're over in the rest of the towns. [01:51:04] Speaker D: Well, man, I tell you what, I love this visit and I appreciate you sharing all your memories for the first part of 75. I. I'm just glad I stirred up your brain a little bit and got some of these things loosened up some. [01:51:16] Speaker B: What do you think my wife will be able to stand me now? [01:51:19] Speaker D: Yeah, she will. Yeah, she will. [01:51:22] Speaker B: Because I used to always tell her how great I was and she never really believed me. [01:51:29] Speaker D: Well, you know, it's the wrestling business, you're not quite sure what's real and what's not, you know, but, but you. [01:51:35] Speaker B: Know what, and be real honest, I really appreciate you calling me and, and bringing back those good memories and stuff and yeah, that was good. You know, even, even like Keith Hart sent me some, some tapes and stuff back, back when, you know, and we kind of keep up with things that way and yeah, that was, that was a good time in my life. And be real honest with you, even though I taught school for 25 years and 22 years after I wrestled, I still like to be known as the professional wrestler, you know, and, and Red Dog Lane and that type of thing and that. And actually I'm called Red Dog a lot and guess what my license plates say Red Dog. Yeah, Red Dog. So yeah, I really enjoyed that time. [01:52:25] Speaker D: How'd you get that name, Larry? [01:52:27] Speaker B: Well, you know what, I was going to North Carolina and actually Terry function one that he wanted me to have a unique name and so, and a unique name and a unique place. So I went to North Carolina. Is Red Dog Lane from Mule Shoe, Texas. Mule Shoe, yeah, and there is a place called Muleshu. [01:52:51] Speaker D: That's amazing. [01:52:52] Speaker B: And that, that got a lot of heat. Just the name. [01:52:55] Speaker D: Sure. [01:52:56] Speaker B: So yeah, that was it. You know, Terry was, he was a good innovator in wrestling and stuff and it got over good in North Carolina. [01:53:05] Speaker D: He could come up with some stuff now. He sure could. [01:53:09] Speaker B: Well, he was a dandy and he was a good person. He, he felt for the kids and everything. And of course, you know, like I said, the only, only thing you have going for you in pro wrestling is how much money you make wrestling. You have no benefits at all. And so you better save your money and try to do good and put some back and, and keep going for. [01:53:33] Speaker D: The different places that you know. I've got another question before I let you go. But you said Stu took care of you and I just sort of took that as he, he took care of you in pay. Compared to the different territories you worked, how did Calgary rank? [01:53:50] Speaker B: Well, I am morello was my favorite, of course, you know, with the funks and everything. And that was at that time was home. And like I said, I like Calgary. And anytime soon wanted to boost up his program or whatever, he would call me and I would, he would pay my trans up to Calgary. Yeah, Calgary was good. [01:54:14] Speaker D: Well, listen, I'm gonna let you have some time here to, to let your brain rest, but in a few weeks I'm gonna send you another list and get it cranked up again. Again. [01:54:22] Speaker B: So you know what? Anytime you want to talk about it. Nothing I like better than talking about myself. [01:54:28] Speaker D: Well, listen, I appreciate you, man, I really do. And I appreciate our friendship and I thank you for taking some time to share some 50 year ago career highlights with me today. [01:54:39] Speaker B: Okay, well. Well, so much so that if you're ever in Red Vale, be sure to look me up. [01:54:44] Speaker D: I'm on become there just because you said that I'm gonna show up. [01:54:49] Speaker B: Okay, well, that sounds great, Tony. And always great talking to you and, and you're so, so much fun to interview with. [01:54:56] Speaker D: Thank you. [01:54:56] Speaker B: Ask the right questions and you give me the right responses and stuff and you make it real easy. [01:55:02] Speaker D: I just got to remember when you asked me that you're the greatest I ever saw. [01:55:07] Speaker B: Okay. Or the greatest you never did see. [01:55:10] Speaker D: All right. Yeah, that's true. Yeah. Oh, there you go. All right. I'll get it right. You just keep, you keep working with me. I'll get it. [01:55:16] Speaker B: All right. Well, I like to work with people or who are interested in such a thing. And like I said, pro wrestling was a huge part of my life. [01:55:24] Speaker C: Well, I hope you enjoyed that visit with Larry Lane. What a character. Still, still the same guy. He likes to rib me and I liked being ribbed by Larry. He's a fantastic guy. I enjoy our conversations and that gives you a little bit of a glimpse, you know, as I do these shows. What I want is I want you, the viewer and the listener to feel like you're having lunch or coffee with me and the person I'm visiting with and you get to sit in and listen in as a third party, just listening to the conversation. And Larry is just such a great guy. And that just gives you a little bit of an insight into what our conversations sound like when we're talking on the, on the phone with each other. Larry Lane, what a great guy. So if you come to my substack channel, which is Tony richards4substack.com you'll get an update on everything that I'm doing. There's a tab there called Current Projects. And in the Current Projects tab, it'll tell you who's coming up on the podcast, who I am planning to be interviewing and talking to and getting on the show. You'll also get an update on the books that I'm writing. So I'm writing a book about Dorie Funk Sr. The Life and Times of Dorie Funk Sr. The King of the Texas Death Match. I've just started in July, started writing the book. I've been researching it since 2024 and so now I just about have all my research put together. I've talked to at least 100 people about him and about who've either worked in the territory, they are family members, they were good friends, they are business people in Amarillo at the time that Dorie Sr. Was around and they had interactions with him. And so that book is in the writing stages now. And so I'm writing that. I'm also working on a book on the life and career of Jim Barnett, the Wizard of Pro Wrestling. And so my research on Jim started last year also and really I had to do a whole lot of research. I had to speed up. I put the Funk book on hold for about six weeks and I really just intently focused on gathering research on Jim Barnett for the Briscoe and Bradshaw shows that we did. And so that book is going to come a little faster than the Funk book because I went so much faster and got so much Barnett information in such a short amount of time. So I'm working on that. There are about altogether, I would say there are eight books I want to write and six of them for sure. Two of them. We'll see how it goes, how long it takes to get these others done. But I'll tell you more about that in the weeks, months and years ahead. You can also check out the things there that we have. The Daily Chronicle, I told you about the paid content and those kinds of things. Come over and join our Facebook group. It's called the Pro Wrestling Time Tunnel. We have posts in there every single day. Also, you can follow me on x Tony Richards 4 at Tony Richards 4, right. I do a lot of posting, do a lot of interacting with people. We have great conversations on X about pro wrestling history. There are a lot of great historians and a lot of pro wrestling history enthusiasts on there and we just have a great time on x at Tony Richards 4 next week here on the show. Listen to this. My good friend and popular guest Jerry Oates will be back to do more on his time in 1975 in the Central States Kansas City territory. So Jerry's coming back for the second time. We're going to move on into more of 75. It's another great interaction and conversation. And then my second guest on the show for the first time. He's going to be making his debut here on the Pro Wrestling Time Tunnel podcast. We're going to have Mike George here and Mike was the tag team partner of Jerry in Kansas City. They held the NWA World Tag Team Championships there in the Central States version. And we're going to take Jerry or Mike's career for 1H75 from January to July when he was in Kansas City. And we're going to walk through that. Mike's got some great stories to tell. I can't wait for you to hear some of them in July. As July wrapped up, he went to Florida. And so we'll have him back in a few weeks to come back and do 2H2 of 75 and his time in the Florida territory. But that's who's coming up next week, Jerry Oates. We're talking about Kansas City and Mike George and we're talking about Kansas City all next week here on the Pro Wrestling Time Tunnel podcast. I appreciate you. I appreciate you being a pro wrestling history enthusiast and I want you to know how much I appreciate your investment of time in our show today and in our show every single week. I hope you will like it. I hope you'll subscribe and get it. I hope you will share it with your family and your friends. And until next time, and next week, we'll have another great show for you. This is Tony Richards saying bye bye everybody. [02:00:59] Speaker A: Thanks for tuning in to the Pro. [02:01:00] Speaker B: Wrestling Time Tunnel podcast. [02:01:03] Speaker A: Tune in for another great episode next week, interviewing wrestlers, referees and media personalities. [02:01:10] Speaker C: That have made the sport of professional wrestling great. [02:01:13] Speaker A: Be sure to follow us on Facebook at Pro Wrestling Time Tunnel. [02:01:16] Speaker C: We'll release a new episode soon. [02:01:19] Speaker A: Don't you dare miss it.